The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Unfortunately, all areas of the curriculum in specialist learning, languages and resources have been hit and scaled back again and again in UK schools since 2008. Schools and services have not recovered. They won't miss what they do not have.

I know. And it sucks.

What a big number of ambitious and courageous people had, though, was to ship themselves elsewhere, if only for a term or two. Free. In fact Erasmus paid people to get mobile, able to compete and soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies. Learn the stuff their school system failed them on. Maybe get a fab job there too, that their home didn't have. Come back home and help rebuild, in better scenario. Will they ever come back now?

There is a reason there are so many Brits in CH. To think those reasons will all of a sudden be worked on..I am sceptical. I am not EU sceptical, I am human nature sceptical. It seems to me all those enraged voices we just heard got sold out, by UK politicians trying shove accountability for the mess they created, using the EU as a scapegoat. The austerity measures will hit harder, I think. Without the opportunities to compensate elsewhere - immediately outsource learning or career options out of the limited one country option. It makes those kids bound locally to what is being offered. How good has the offer been till now?

[MidfieldGeneral]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Unfortunately, all areas of the curriculum in specialist learning, languages and resources have been hit and scaled back again and again in UK schools since 2008. Schools and services have not recovered. They won't miss what they do not have.

are you saying this with a straight face? These were cuts initiated by the Labour and then the Tories in response to the 2008 crash. The Tories included IDS and Gove, leading Brexiters.

	Quote:
	And was that the fault of the EU? Was it the fault of the EU the NHS was squeezed to death? Was it the fault of the EU council houses were sold and practically no affordable housing built. Was it? Really.

Sigh! Would you really like me to answer you again? Forgive my reluctance, as I think you will just ask the same question again. Read my previous posts. I answered you already, as have many others on this thread.

Interesting article - the forgotten people.

I walked from Liverpool to London. Brexit was no surprise

[baboon]

	Quote:	CathHarmony
	If more of the poorer people hadn't been left behind, they probably would have voted remain.

....much more a consequence of UK Government policy than EU. Actually the EU have been pumping money into the UKs poorer regions - hence the sudden panic from the likes of Cornwall wondering where their investment cash is going to come from once the EU stops its support.

Perfectly said Musik.

People believed the deterioration of the education system, social services, the NHS, housing shortages and costs, etc- were due to the EU - in fact they were told so by the OUT campaigners, and sadly believed them, because they were hurting.

Hate is being unleashed already in the wake of the vote. Polish kids are terrified at school as they are being shouted at to go home. Immigrants are told in doctors surgeries and hospitals to go home to cut the queue. Groups of facists thugs are waiting outside mosques to harrass people coming out.
It is so beyond tragic. Ordinary people indeed. Immigrants- well some of them 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, generations, afraid to go out in case they get shouted at and harrassed.

In the meantime, people here in CH who have no children or grandchildren back in the UK, no intention of ever going back ever, and are comfortable with their alpine views and cuckoo clocks, and a good job and decent to exremely fat salary- are gloating, and shouting 'we did it for the little people'

[MidfieldGeneral]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Sigh! Would you really like me to answer you again? Forgive my reluctance, as I think you will just ask the same question again. Read my previous posts. I answered you already, as have many others on this thread. Interesting article - the forgotten people. I walked from Liverpool to London. Brexit was no surprise

so the EU is to blame for Thatcher?

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	so the EU is to blame for Thatcher?

and thatcher was to blame for coal mines being wildly unprofitable, or the unions willing to let the whole industry close rather then a few unprofitable pit? lets face it, in the 60's and 70's the unions ruled, do what we say or else, they ruined uk industry.

(yes I grew up in coal town and during the miners strike, the unions where like the mafia)

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I know. And it sucks. What a big number of ambitious and courageous people had, though, was to ship themselves elsewhere, if only for a term or two. Free. In fact Erasmus paid people to get mobile, able to compete and soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies. Learn the stuff their school system failed them on. Maybe get a fab job there too, that their home didn't have. Come back home and help rebuild, in better scenario. Will they ever come back now? There is a reason there are so many Brits in CH. To think those reasons will all of a sudden be worked on..I am sceptical. I am not EU sceptical, I am human nature sceptical. It seems to me all those enraged voices we just heard got sold out, by UK politicians trying shove accountability for the mess they created, using the EU as a scapegoat. The austerity measures will hit harder, I think. Without the opportunities to compensate elsewhere - immediately outsource learning or career options out of the limited one country option. It makes those kids bound locally to what is being offered. How good has the offer been till now?

Wait wait... the British people here came to "soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies"


So, the many threads here on EF moaning about English not being an official language here in Switzerland, how terribly unfair it is that you are expected to adapt to the way things are, how racist the Swiss are etc. etc. are all posted by who? The Poles?


I am not anti British, but I do note a strong sense of entitlement expressed by a great number of the Brits here on EF.

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	so the EU is to blame for Thatcher?

Good grief! Is no one listening. Some problems across England have never improved or been addressed by the political elite.

The Political parties in the UK don't listen - Labour have failed many people across UK. The EU elite have done, and are doing the exact same across Europe.

Why do you think the far right are doing so well?

[idefix]

	Quote:
	Perfectly said Musik. People believed the deterioration of the education system, social services, the NHS, housing shortages and costs, etc- were due to the EU - in fact they were told so by the OUT campaigners, and sadly believed them, because they were hurting. Hate is being unleashed already in the wake of the vote. Polish kids are terrified at school as they are being shouted at to go home. Immigrants are told in doctors surgeries and hospitals to go home to cut the queue. Groups of facists thugs are waiting outside mosques to harrass people coming out. It is so beyond tragic. Ordinary people indeed. Immigrants- well some of them 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, generations, afraid to go out in case they get shouted at and harrassed. In the meantime, people here in CH who have no children or grandchildren back in the UK, no intention of ever going back ever, and are comfortable with their alpine views and cuckoo clocks, and a good job and decent to exremely fat salary- are gloating, and shouting 'we did it for the little people'

It's so funny to read you, every post has more nonsense than the previous one

[MusicChick]

In the EU:

	Quote:	MusicChick
	In fact Erasmus paid people to get mobile, able to compete and soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies. Learn the stuff their school system failed them on.

I like Erasmus gets you to the country of exchange destination just for a term or two. You are accepted only with language non-beginner standard. It pushes home countries to prep students before. Then you usually go home and return what you get invested in you.

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Wait wait... the British people here came to "soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies"

Hahah, well. No. I was speaking of the program itself that will probably stop in the UK, anyways.

	Quote:
	So, the many threads here on EF moaning about English not being an official language here in Switzerland, how terribly unfair it is that you are expected to adapt to the way things are, how racist the Swiss are etc. etc. are all posted by who? The Poles? I am not anti British, but I do note a strong sense of entitlement expressed by a great number of the Brits here on EF.

I think so. It is still cute, it is delivered often in this...pseudo-selfdeprecating manner. Well, all big and formally big nations act this way in a debate, unless they happen to be in a vast minority. People only speak big when they expect some cred from their crownies.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Perfectly said Musik. People believed the deterioration of the education system, social services, the NHS, housing shortages and costs, etc- were due to the EU - in fact they were told so by the OUT campaigners, and sadly believed them, because they were hurting. Hate is being unleashed already in the wake of the vote. Polish kids are terrified at school as they are being shouted at to go home. Immigrants are told in doctors surgeries and hospitals to go home to cut the queue. Groups of facists thugs are waiting outside mosques to harrass people coming out. It is so beyond tragic. Ordinary people indeed. Immigrants- well some of them 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, generations, afraid to go out in case they get shouted at and harrassed. In the meantime, people here in CH who have no children or grandchildren back in the UK, no intention of ever going back ever, and are comfortable with their alpine views and cuckoo clocks, and a good job and decent to exremely fat salary- are gloating, and shouting 'we did it for the little people'

Not surprising.
This whole area of immigration needs clarifying.

There is no EU or International law (I have researched) that gives EU workers/pensioners the right to stay in UK and Brits to stay in EU after Brexit.
It is not like Switzerland where the EU bilateral treaties clearly state if the treaties are cancelled then people have the right to stay.

So far I see two different approaches for the UK Brexit team to choose between and to negotiate;

1. We will fight for our boys and girls to stay in the EU

or

2. We will deport the cheap foreign labour and bring our boys and girls home where they belong.

I fear 2 will be the chosen one otherwise the plumbers in Sunderland or wherever will be rioting (already close to happening according to Odile).

Example "Police Probe Post-Brexit Attacks On Poles"
Source

I hope these are isolated incidents that will go away!

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	MidfieldGeneral
	so the EU is to blame for Thatcher?

Everyone is looking to blame somebody, you could not write the script.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	In the EU: Hahah, well. No. I was speaking of the program itself that will probably stop in the UK.

MC.


Entitlement makes one believe that you have a right to a program to help you "soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies" at the same time it is an almost certain strategy to assure you won't, precisely because it allows you to distance yourself from any form of self responsibility.


In my opinion anything other than humble opinion, this is exactly what I hear coming from BOTH sides of the Brexit debate.
"They didn't explain it clearly enough to us."
"They've ruined us, and our future."
etc. etc.

[amogles]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	except any EU member state, or they get a degree (which they would need to pay big $$$$$ for) or a skill needed in that country (kinda hard when you can't get in job to learn a skill in the first place)

I have the impression you can go to virtually any country in the world and find there is a community of expats there, mostly in professional and specialist jobs.

So obviously their training and skills can't be that rubbish.

[Kosti]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Why do you think the far right are doing so well?

Basically in a nutshell, they have no scruples in blaming immigrants for problems not created by them.

The other major parties atleast have the grace to blame each other.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	Everyone is looking to blame somebody, you could not write the script.

Well, you could write it, but it would be impossible to sell to anything other than a conspiracy website.

[jacek]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	Everyone is looking to blame somebody, you could not write the script.

Chain reaction ... ?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Good grief! Is no one listening. Some problems across England have never improved or been addressed by the political elite. The Political parties in the UK don't listen - Labour have failed many people across UK. The EU elite have done, and are doing the exact same across Europe. Why do you think the far right are doing so well?

This isn't an attack against you personally, but I have always had issue with anyone who uses the term 'political elite'.

They're politicians and public servants. They're not rock stars, rocket scientists or A list celebs.

When you come from a place in your mind where you actually believe there's a political elite, you're immediately dumbing down your role in the political process and handing these public servants more (imagined) power than they should ever be entitled to or have bestowed upon them.

To me, political elite belongs in the same basket as chem trails.

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	This isn't an attack against you personally, but I have always had issue with anyone who uses the term 'political elite'. They're politicians and public servants. They're not rock stars, rocket scientists or A list celebs. When you come from a place in your mind where you actually believe there's a political elite, you're immediately dumbing down your role in the political process and handing these public servants more (imagined) power than they should ever be entitled to or have bestowed upon them. To me, political elite belongs in the same basket as chem trails.

Of which certain individuals were born with a silver spoon in their mouth with no sense of reality, just a political agenda with no common purpose.