Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26481  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:19
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,775
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,862 Times in 10,633 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
That makes it easier for employers to hire people. I see this as an advantage.
Sure, employee protection is actually bad for business's & ultimately workers, however the lefties won't thank this post.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #26482  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sure, employee protection is actually bad for business's & ultimately workers, however the lefties won't thank this post.
You forgot the other main benefit for us pseuds - we'll be able to get another raft of Dickensian workhouse novels.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26483  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sure, employee protection is actually bad for business's & ultimately workers, however the lefties won't thank this post.
I imagine the swivel-eyed right wingers baulk at the level of unemployment benefit paid out in Switzerland, though.

Yes, you can make your employees redundant or fire them at will but there's a safety net.

This isn't the case in the UK. There's a token gesture of Universal Credit or whatever it is now but that's it.

You can't have it both ways.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26484  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:31
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,332
Groaned at 348 Times in 240 Posts
Thanked 18,830 Times in 9,809 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
I imagine the swivel-eyed right wingers baulk at the level of unemployment benefit paid out in Switzerland, though.
It is an insurance, as most things in CH. Paid in by people themselves. The conditions for "pay out" are tough. This un-entitlement mindset needs to exist in EU too, it mostly doesn't. Or not where the numbers bulk.

It is not seen as a safety net here.

Quote:
This isn't the case in the UK.
Maybe it should be created, then. Small independent states have more chance to create small efficient systems.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at MusicChick for this post:
  #26485  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Maybe it should be created, then. Small independent states have more chance to create small efficient systems.
Say that to commuters with a straight face.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26486  
Old 28.01.2020, 10:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It is an ansurance, as most things in CH. Paid in by people themselves. The conditions for "pay out" are tough. This un-entitlement mindset needs to exist in EU too, it doesn't.

It is not seen as a safety net here.
The system exists and it works. Doesn't matter why or how or what. It exists.

The conditions for pay out are NOT tough. You have to look for a new job and simply prove it. People who find it "tough" are not simply not trying. There's even help with language, and other tools and courses to support job search so there really aren't any excuses. It is structured and, for the main part, fair.

Of course it's seen as a safety net because that's what it is. I think you are confusing it with "a lifestyle choice". People here don't see it as a "lifestyle choice", so don't be such a snob.

Quote:
View Post
Maybe it should be created, then. Small independent states have more chance to create small efficient systems.
LOL! You are kidding, right? You think that now that the UK has Brexitised itself, it's going to make a whole new benefit system because it's not in the EU any more?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26487  
Old 28.01.2020, 12:59
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,286
Groaned at 204 Times in 161 Posts
Thanked 6,939 Times in 3,101 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It is an insurance, as most things in CH. Paid in by people themselves. The conditions for "pay out" are tough. This un-entitlement mindset needs to exist in EU too, it mostly doesn't. Or not where the numbers bulk.

It is not seen as a safety net here.
Nonsense, there is pretty much the same attitude all over Europe and in Switzerland when you are finished on unemployment benefits, you go on the social support if needed, just the same as everywhere else.

For example in Ireland, once you finish with unemployment benefits, you can apply for another schema which is based on financial needs.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #26488  
Old 28.01.2020, 13:40
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,775
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,862 Times in 10,633 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
For example in Ireland, once you finish with unemployment benefits, you can apply for another schema which is based on financial needs.
Is that money repayable if the situation changes like in CH?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #26489  
Old 28.01.2020, 13:47
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,007
Groaned at 415 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 2,407 Times in 1,142 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So what is so bad in Switzerland?? Only 4-5 weeks holidays? Well, it was voted down to increase that. A lot of other countries do not have 5-6 weeks holidays for everyone per year.


So what else?
4 weeks paid holiday, 14 weeks paid maternity leave, no minimum wage plus what has already been mentioned with regard to redundancies.

I should add, that I think workers rights in Switzerland are sufficient and in the UK they go too far. Certainly when one gets into the minefield of employment tribunals in the UK.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #26490  
Old 28.01.2020, 13:52
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I should add, that I think workers rights in Switzerland are sufficient and in the UK they go too far. Certainly when one gets into the minefield of employment tribunals in the UK.
You realise that you can take employers to court for similar reasons as in the UK, don't you?

The "employment tribunals" in the UK are not a minefield unless you are the one who has been touching up your secretary or holding KKK meetings in the office kitchen.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26491  
Old 28.01.2020, 13:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,989
Groaned at 336 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,580 Times in 7,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sure, employee protection is actually bad for business's & ultimately workers, however the lefties won't thank this post.
You seem to see things only from the employer/business owner's perspective, and yourself only in that position.
Reply With Quote
  #26492  
Old 28.01.2020, 13:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,775
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,862 Times in 10,633 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
You seem to see things only from the employer/business owner's perspective, and yourself only in that position.
No a more flexible workplace can be exploited by workers by asking for more money or moving to where more money is offered. A free market works for both employers & employees.

I worked for 30 years on what would now be described as zero hour contracts, only there was never a contract & I might work for 10 companies in any month.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
This user groans at fatmanfilms for this post:
  #26493  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,041
Groaned at 291 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 18,184 Times in 6,374 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
No a more flexible workplace can be exploited by workers by asking for more money or moving to where more money is offered. A free market works for both employers & employees.
I agree. In countries with strong employee protection, employers are reluctant to hire people because they know it's almost impossible to fire them.
Consequence is that there are many people on temp contracts, not able to get a mortgage etc and difficult to proceed in life, and it only protects the bad employees.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #26494  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:13
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 996
Groaned at 158 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 2,631 Times in 973 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
A free market works for both employers & employees.
Yes, BUT with a very very different bargaining leverage heavily skewed towards the employer. Sure, most of us, expats in CH, have it relatively good as by and large we are educated, well experience and lucky. This is not the case for the vast majority of employees worldwide and as much as I appreciate my own luck (seems you too, wish you all the best sincerely!) i see a coherent gainfully employed society as a public good. having odd jobs in the "sharing economy" ain't gonna cut it.

Btw, over the past probably 8-9 months the intensity of headhunters trying to recruit for the UK has increased substantially. In the beginning they used to try to convince me "it will all be ok", but recently even they seem a bit blue and usually after being cut off end up with "yes, i understand, we get that a lot"
Valid statistic? Surely not. But it certainly creates a certain impression in my mind about how many people are refusing to go to the UK and apparently the UK is having a hard time finding qualified people.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #26495  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I agree. In countries with strong employee protection, employers are reluctant to hire people because they know it's almost impossible to fire them.
Consequence is that there are many people on temp contracts, not able to get a mortgage etc and difficult to proceed in life, and it only protects the bad employees.
Yeah but in the case of the UK that happily massages the unemployment figures and people like BoJo trumpet that everyone is in work and rich AF.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26496  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:28
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,286
Groaned at 204 Times in 161 Posts
Thanked 6,939 Times in 3,101 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
A free market works for both employers & employees.
And yet that is one of the BREXITEERS problems.... they voted to leave a single market with FMOP because others in the market were 'taking their jobs'
Reply With Quote
  #26497  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:32
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,332
Groaned at 348 Times in 240 Posts
Thanked 18,830 Times in 9,809 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I worked for 30 years on what would now be described as zero hour contracts, only there was never a contract & I might work for 10 companies in any month.
This sounds like CH to me. The opposite of France. Which way will the independent UK more likely head?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #26498  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,989
Groaned at 336 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,580 Times in 7,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
This sounds like CH to me. The opposite of France. Which way will the independent UK more likely head?
Employee protection legislation or the extent of it has nothing to do with EU membership. France, for instance, would be the same semi-socialist state in or outside of EU.

The British didn't need to get out of EU in order to change this system.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #26499  
Old 28.01.2020, 14:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Employee protection legislation or the extent of it has nothing to do with EU membership. France, for instance, would be the same semi-socialist state in or outside of EU.

The British didn't need to get out of EU in order to change this system.
Please stop confusing the anti-EU brigade.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #26500  
Old 28.01.2020, 15:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It is an insurance, as most things in CH. Paid in by people themselves. The conditions for "pay out" are tough. This un-entitlement mindset needs to exist in EU too, it mostly doesn't. Or not where the numbers bulk.

It is not seen as a safety net here.



Maybe it should be created, then. Small independent states have more chance to create small efficient systems.
The UK population isn't small, esp compared with CH.

I think there is very much a sense if entitlement in CH... in the sense that folk have paid in and therefore expect it. AFAIK .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0