The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Good grief! Is no one listening. Some problems across England have never improved or been addressed by the political elite. The Political parties in the UK don't listen - Labour have failed many people across UK. The EU elite have done, and are doing the exact same across Europe. Why do you think the far right are doing so well?

"Labour have failed many people across UK." Over the weekend twelve Labour shadow cabinet ministers resigned plus twelve junior ministers; Corbyn still hanging in.....

	Quote:	marton
	"Labour have failed many people across UK." Over the weekend twelve Labour shadow cabinet ministers resigned plus twelve junior ministers; Corbyn still hanging in.....

The result of politics becoming a career rather than a vocation. Any politician these days who has their heart on their sleeve in this day and age is deemed a crackpot.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	MC. Entitlement makes one believe that you have a right to a program to help you "soak up work ethics, languages, methodologies" at the same time it is an almost certain strategy to assure you won't, precisely because it allows you to distance yourself from any form of self responsibility.

What you wrote looks logical, but it is not really the case, in my experience. You can apply this logic to any schooling or instruction whatsoever - why provide that for kids, right? They should look for info on their own. We can just assure 1 tablet per 1 student because statistically speaking, that probably says they are learning a lot and responsibly.

A lot of responsibility I have encountered in international edu env - and I actually worked in that field for quite a few years, transfers study dept as a side kick. Those kids are fearlessly independent and responsible. If you relocate across a few borders, still figuring out how much things cost and where to live, you are a teenager and speak some of the local language, nobody walks you through (since we do not have a massive "Student Life" industry nor departments and special Deans for this like people do in the US or Canada, no thank you very much), only the odd geeky or hipster student assistant that won't have time for you anyways, you are on your own, from finding the program, learning the language, provide a language certif, enrolling and waiting if you get approved, then pack up and move and get on with courses in a foreign language - it is an excellent and affordable learning opportunity that I love Europe for. Yup. You can see it as entitlement, but I think it is a pretty smart investment. You don't get driven in by your parents SUV and get walked through some innitiation info meetings, while your parents get busy during the "parents week" social affairs. I think foreign study exchange while not having to sell a kidney is somethings kids should be encouraged to do. They usually are encouraged by themselves and responsibly so. I wonder if that stays for the UK.

[marton]

	Quote:	jacek
	Chain reaction ... ?

Maybe not.

The other nations read in their newspapers and see on TV how the UK finances are collapsing while nobody is stepping forward with concrete information about next Brexit steps then likely their enthusiasm is fading.

[marton]

According to Reuters, Steffen Seibert, a spokesman for Angela Merkel, told a briefing:

"One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this [article 50] request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving.

Only when Britain has made the request according to article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement."

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	What you wrote looks logical, but it is not really the case, in my experience. You can apply this logic to any schooling or instruction whatsoever - why provide that for kids, right? Thay should look for info on their own. We can just assure 1 tablet per 1 student because statistically speaking, that probably says they are learning a lot and responsibly. A lot of responsibility I have encountered in international edu env - and I actually worked in that field for quite a few years, transfers study dept as a side kick. Those kids are fearlessly independent and responsible. If you relocate across a few borders, still figuring out how much things cost and where to live, you are a teenager and speak some of the local language, nobody walks you through (since we do not have a massive "Student Life" industry nor departments and special Deans for this like people do in the US or Canada, no thank you very much), only the odd geeky or hipster student assistant that won't have time for you anyways, you are on your own, from finding the program, learning the language, provide a language certif, enrolling and waiting if you get approved, then pack up and move and get on with courses in a foreign language - it is an excellent and affordable learning opportunity that I love Europe for. Yup. You can see it as entitlement, but I think it is a pretty smart investment. You don't get driven in by your parents SUV and get walked through some innitiation info meetings, while your parents get busy during the "parents week" social affairs. I think foreign study exchange while not having to sell a kidney is somethings kids should be encouraged to do. They usually are by themselves and responsibly so. I wonder if that stays for the UK.

If you are trying to make it seem that I am against educational programs then you are barking up the wrong tree.


I put myself through University, both in Canada and here. I did go to UCCA in the early Eighties with an eye to studying in the UK, but having had some experience of the UK working as a field engineer I decided against it. The combination of being marched out of a Mersey shipyard for having done a union painters work (I staked an adjustable resistor with nail polish), and politely listening to people sneer "that may be how you do things in the colonies" while trying to explain how a system that I had designed and built actually worked (The laws of physics are the same in the UK, no?) may have played a role in my deciding not to study in the UK.


I am not against educational programs. I am against entitlement.

BREAKING NEWS... Jeremy Corbyn is having crisis with the new shadow cabinet.

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	The laws of physics are the same in the UK, no?

Don't be ridiculous. Sir Isaac Newton was British, and everyone knows he invented physics. Physics is special in the UK. Are special. Whatever. It is/they are British, and better there than anywhere else.

[fatmanfilms]

I saw this on a financial forum I post on, interesting to see the comments.

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I saw this on a financial forum I post on, interesting to see the comments.

I don't understand how it wasn't FPTP? So this is based on on how many seats each side would have won?

[jacek]

Where two fight, the third one wins ... Is it a good time to exchange the CHF into GBP?

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I saw this on a financial forum I post on, interesting to see the comments.

Then in Scotland it would have been even higher for Remain, right?

[Castro]

	Quote:	marton
	"Labour have failed many people across UK." Over the weekend twelve Labour shadow cabinet ministers resigned plus twelve junior ministers; Corbyn still hanging in.....

The ghost of Blair continues to loom large. I personally hope Corbyn defeats the malcontents and gets on with leading the party. Hundreds of thousands of people joined or rejoined Labour (myself included) because we liked Corbyn's vision of equality and fairness for all. To have that usurped by political skulduggery is frankly appalling. The press were reporting that Hilary Benn was sacked by Corbyn in a phone call, but what seems to have been forgotten is the fact that Benn was orchestrating a coup at the time.

Its depressing that at a time when the conservatives are at their most divided and incapable of governing, a core of Blairite MPs are desperate to sabotage their own party. Just like John Mann did by haranguing Ken Livingstone a week before the elections and plunging the party into turmoil.

Perhaps the best way forward would be for the Blairite contingent to form a breakaway party or better still join he LibDems. They clearly seem at odds with core Labour voters and have nothing but contempt for the Trade Unions (which overwhelming support Corbyn).

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	If you are trying to make it seem that I am against educational programs then you are barking up the wrong tree. I put myself through University, both in Canada and here. I did go to UCCA in the early Eighties with an eye to studying in the UK, but having had some experience of the UK working as a field engineer I decided against it. The combination of being marched out of a Mersey shipyard for having done a union painters work (I staked an adjustable resistor with nail polish), and politely listening to people sneer "that may be how you do things in the colonies" while trying to explain how a system that I had designed and built actually worked (The laws of physics are the same in the UK, no?) may have played a role in my deciding not to study in the UK. I am not against educational programs. I am against entitlement.

Thanks, me too.

I just read OECD mentioned somewhere that Brits undergrads are already paying the highest tuition fees, hence 15000 swiftly got on a foreign program (I think those were last year figures). The deadly problem of edu debts will probably stick for a while, just hope the Erasmus won't get shut in the process. I have a feeling it won't be as dramatic, just dislike the young to be paying for somebody's moment of misplaced anxious patriotic sentiments.

(To your "bricolage" - my brothers would do the same. They actually owned seethrough nailpolish for these things as opposed to me actually having one. Big Brother would, of coure, officially disagree with that kind of creativity).

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	Maybe not. The other nations read in their newspapers and see on TV how the UK finances are collapsing while nobody is stepping forward with concrete information about next Brexit steps then likely their enthusiasm is fading.

Well, if the EU can now deliver a first turnaround and rapid growth for countries like Greece and Spain, this would indeed catapult the exiters against the buffers.

But if the EU was capable of doing that, they would have done so by now.

Of course if the EU follows up on Odile's threats and actually kicks all the British expats out of Spain, that will be another blow to their struggling property market as well as the countless local businesses living off expat money.

	Quote:	Castro
	The ghost of Blair continues to loom large. I personally hope Corbyn defeats the malcontents and gets on with leading the party. Hundreds of thousands of people joined or rejoined Labour (myself included) because we liked Corbyn's vision of equality and fairness for all. To have that usurped by political skulduggery is frankly appalling. The press were reporting that Hilary Benn was sacked by Corbyn in a phone call, but what seems to have been forgotten is the fact that Benn was orchestrating a coup at the time. Its depressing that at a time when the conservatives are at their most divided and incapable of governing, a core of Blairite MPs are desperate to sabotage their own party. Just like John Mann did by haranguing Ken Livingstone a week before the elections and plunging the party into turmoil. Perhaps the best way forward would be for the Blairite contingent to form a breakaway party or better still joint he LibDems. They clearly seem at odds with core Labour voters and have nothing but contempt for the Trade Unions (which overwhelming support Corbyn).

Don't underestimate the role of the Chilcot inquiry in all of this. It's due out in two weeks and Corbyn wants Blair tried for war crimes.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	Don't be ridiculous. Sir Isaac Newton was British, and everyone knows he invented physics. Physics is special in the UK. Are special. Whatever. It is/they are British, and better there than anywhere else.

Actually, what he called it was Physiks, and what he did was describe it mathematically. And no, not "Everyone" knows this. He also stuck needles into his own eyes while investigating Optiks (another little known fact).


For crying out loud, he was a Cambridge Prof and he still couldn't spell! Physics! Optics! Yitzak!


Then came Einstein and showed that Newton was only approximately correct (Bloody Germans!).


Joseph Lucas, now there was a man... he invented darkness.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	... just hope the Erasmus won't get shut in the process.

Like any non-EU country, it only takes a financial contribution to the program to be part of it. Norway and Switzerland pay in, there are in. If Britain's leavers wanted a "pay as you use" kind of Europe, they'll get it. The prices are set by supply vs. demand, something the UK understands better than anybody else in Europe. No problem. Money will take care of it and we'll see if it is cheaper or more expensive. I don't know.

[Blueangel]

Bollox! Should have left the house two hours ago, but my fb news feed is alive right now. All my mates know I hate Corbyn, and whatever their feelings are towards him, their true loyalty is to Lisa Nandy and she's just resigned. She's our home town MP, very visible in the community and an awful lot of my friends have worked with her on various projects and issues, most notably, the use of zero-hours contracts.

Corbyn must go. He has to!

[PaddyG]

Rumours abound, unsubstantiated of course, that Corbyn actually voted Leave. It's based purely on his refusal to answer the direct question: "How did you vote in the referendum?".