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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26621  
Old 02.02.2020, 23:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And as suggested in my text, those people are eejits.
Maybe some people don't have the privilege to hop from country to country so they develop an affinity for their 'imaginary lines' as that's the only home they have?
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  #26622  
Old 02.02.2020, 23:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's possible, people adopt illogical bonds to all sorts of things. I for example support Arsenal because of a player who was great in WC Italy 1990 who went on to play for them. Not hugely logical, but I derive pleasure from seeing them do well, but objectively it's a pastime, I'm not going looking for other firms to have a dust up with and I would suggest people who take it that seriously are eejits too.

Friends and family aside, I think it's a bad idea to get too deeply entrenched in loyalty for most other things, be it country, God, or even something as minor as a football team you support.

Let's just say investing too much loyalty into something that cannot be reciprocal is a poor life choice.
I guess the Palestinians should just forget about the illogical bonds they have to their imaginary lines and accept Trump's Deal of the Century then.
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  #26623  
Old 02.02.2020, 23:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I guess the Palestinians should just forget about the illogical bonds they have to their imaginary lines and accept Trump's Deal of the Century then.
Yes, they should. It's long overdue.

Tom
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  #26624  
Old 03.02.2020, 00:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Haha, good try, but isn't the issue here Israel trying to sneakily increase the size of their lines?
Who cares, the lines are imaginary anyway 😉
  #26625  
Old 03.02.2020, 23:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Gets worse, just when you think surely not!
Quote:
Political journalists boycotted a Downing Street briefing on Monday after one of Boris Johnson’s aides banned selected reporters from attending.

The confrontation took place inside No 10 after Lee Cain, Johnson’s most senior communications adviser, tried to exclude reporters from the Mirror, the i, HuffPost, PoliticsHome, the Independent and others from an official government briefing.

The briefing was due to be given by government officials, who are meant to be politically neutral but did not happen because of the walkout.

Labour said the move by Johnson’s team showed the prime minister was “resorting to tactics imported from Donald Trump to hide from scrutiny”.
Source

There is no excuse for Boris here as he is an ex-journalist and well understands how such things should work.
Anyway, kudos to the journalists who walked out to support their colleagues.
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  #26626  
Old 04.02.2020, 10:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Gets worse, just when you think surely not!


Source

There is no excuse for Boris here as he is an ex-journalist and well understands how such things should work.
Anyway, kudos to the journalists who walked out to support their colleagues.
It was never going to get better. Roll on the next GE.
  #26627  
Old 04.02.2020, 11:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It was never going to get better. Roll on the next GE.
Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the seats he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding.

He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.

Last edited by baboon; 04.02.2020 at 11:59. Reason: votes-seats
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  #26628  
Old 04.02.2020, 11:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the votes he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding.

He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.
It shocks the hell out of me too and I know it's happening!
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  #26629  
Old 04.02.2020, 11:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the votes he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding.

He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.
Next time you meet him, you can explain to him how in Switzerland no matter how we vote, we always end up with the same government because the parties have an agreement that frustrates the will of the people.

Or how in the US Trump failed to win the popular vote but still got elected. Or how they get upset when Russia interferes in their elections, but find it normal for Irish politicians to speak at their conventions and campaign in their districts.

Or how in Ireland you always end up with a centralist government. Hell, if you listen to them being interviewed you’d be forgiven for thinking they all belonged to the same party!

There is no ideal form of democracy, but most countries seem to have a format that suit them.
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  #26630  
Old 04.02.2020, 12:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Next time you meet him, you can explain to him how in Switzerland no matter how we vote, we always end up with the same government because the parties have an agreement that frustrates the will of the people.
Actually it does change as the votes shift (although I agree it should have changed last time but didn't). The Bundesrat have however considerably less power than the UK PM and have to have the support of parties representing more than 50% of the electorate. Plus we have our referenda to keep a check on everything.
  #26631  
Old 04.02.2020, 12:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Plus we have our referenda to keep a check on everything.
Ah yes, referenda... they sort everything out for the better...
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  #26632  
Old 04.02.2020, 12:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ah yes, referenda... they sort everything out for the better...
How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)
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  #26633  
Old 04.02.2020, 14:56
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How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)
Didn't object to that per se, even if it was clearly misguided. Do object to the breaking of promises made in the campaign that the UK would remain in the Single Market (something that I'm certain would have had the support of a strong majority).
  #26634  
Old 04.02.2020, 17:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the seats he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding.

He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.
Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.
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  #26635  
Old 04.02.2020, 17:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.
He's still a dangerous slimeball.
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  #26636  
Old 04.02.2020, 18:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.
...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.
  #26637  
Old 04.02.2020, 18:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.
Strange that you make a coalition something positive. The disadvantages are clear: slower (or no) decisions are taken and accountability is unclear
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  #26638  
Old 04.02.2020, 21:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Can someone answer a hopefully simple Brexit question?

We're in the transition period now. Aside from a party the other night, how is that different from the past few years?

Nothing has really changed and everything still has to be negotiated, doesn't it?
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  #26639  
Old 04.02.2020, 21:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)
Yeah. I thought it was perfectly fine and entirely in line with British parliamentary democracy, for the sovereign parliament to frustrate "the will of the people". I also think it is fine and entirely in line with British parliamentary democracy, for the Tories to try to actually bring some form of Brexit into being.

On the whole though, I'm in favour of FPTP being replaced by some form of PR. I do recall reading somewhere, that mathematically, there's no entirely fair system of democracy.

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Nothing has really changed and everything still has to be negotiated
All that's changed while the UK is transitioning (while self-identifying as non-EU), is that the UK has no say on EU business.
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  #26640  
Old 04.02.2020, 21:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.
Remain MP’s had two and half years to insert a government of “National Unity”. They could have easily removed Boris in his first few months but they were not able to manage it because they couldn’t agree on a PM. Given the embarrassment of the Rotten Parliament, I think the country needs to stay well away from coalitions.
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