The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	baboon
	Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the votes he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding. He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.

It shocks the hell out of me too and I know it's happening!

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	baboon
	Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the votes he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding. He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.

Next time you meet him, you can explain to him how in Switzerland no matter how we vote, we always end up with the same government because the parties have an agreement that frustrates the will of the people.

Or how in the US Trump failed to win the popular vote but still got elected. Or how they get upset when Russia interferes in their elections, but find it normal for Irish politicians to speak at their conventions and campaign in their districts.

Or how in Ireland you always end up with a centralist government. Hell, if you listen to them being interviewed you’d be forgiven for thinking they all belonged to the same party!

There is no ideal form of democracy, but most countries seem to have a format that suit them.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Next time you meet him, you can explain to him how in Switzerland no matter how we vote, we always end up with the same government because the parties have an agreement that frustrates the will of the people.

Actually it does change as the votes shift (although I agree it should have changed last time but didn't). The Bundesrat have however considerably less power than the UK PM and have to have the support of parties representing more than 50% of the electorate. Plus we have our referenda to keep a check on everything.

[22 yards]

	Quote:	baboon
	Plus we have our referenda to keep a check on everything.

Ah yes, referenda... they sort everything out for the better...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	22 yards
	Ah yes, referenda... they sort everything out for the better...

How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)

[baboon]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)

Didn't object to that per se, even if it was clearly misguided. Do object to the breaking of promises made in the campaign that the UK would remain in the Single Market (something that I'm certain would have had the support of a strong majority).

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	baboon
	Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the seats he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding. He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.

Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.

He's still a dangerous slimeball.

[baboon]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Comments like this do come across rather as sour grapes. Boris Johnson managed to secure a higher proportion of the vote than that which the leaders of Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Austria and Italy. In fact, without bothering to check, I believe that Mr Johnson is in the strongest position of any European leader apart from Viktor Orbán of Hungary.

...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	baboon
	...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.

Strange that you make a coalition something positive. The disadvantages are clear: slower (or no) decisions are taken and accountability is unclear

[3Wishes]

Can someone answer a hopefully simple Brexit question?

We're in the transition period now. Aside from a party the other night, how is that different from the past few years?

Nothing has really changed and everything still has to be negotiated, doesn't it?

[NotAllThere]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	How funny, the same people who object to FPTP also object to the Majority vote on leaving the EU. (something to do with non binding majority decision)

Yeah. I thought it was perfectly fine and entirely in line with British parliamentary democracy, for the sovereign parliament to frustrate "the will of the people". I also think it is fine and entirely in line with British parliamentary democracy, for the Tories to try to actually bring some form of Brexit into being.

On the whole though, I'm in favour of FPTP being replaced by some form of PR. I do recall reading somewhere, that mathematically, there's no entirely fair system of democracy.

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Nothing has really changed and everything still has to be negotiated

All that's changed while the UK is transitioning (while self-identifying as non-EU), is that the UK has no say on EU business.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	baboon
	...pushing them into coalitions where they have to compromise to find policies acceptable to more than just their own party's narrow interests. So Merkel, for example, is in a coalition with the support of roughly 62% of voters.

Remain MP’s had two and half years to insert a government of “National Unity”. They could have easily removed Boris in his first few months but they were not able to manage it because they couldn’t agree on a PM. Given the embarrassment of the Rotten Parliament, I think the country needs to stay well away from coalitions.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Aside from a party the other night, how is that different from the past few years?

Some have awoken to an agonising hangover....

"What did I do, what did I do?"

(sorry, this is the only way I can picture the more rational brexiteers)

[CodPeace]

	Quote:
	It was never going to get better. Roll on the next GE.

I didn't realise you were a Tory, because no-one else is going to win it.

Even Labours greatest leader in living memory has reached acceptance:
“Brexit is happening, and our attitude now should be to strive to make the best of it; to approach it with determined optimism, not looking over our shoulders in unrequited longing for what was."


Labour have a mountain to climb, and just like the Democrats over in the US, they have no leadership material.

[John William]

Croatia's ambassador to the EU says Thank you, goodbye and good riddance after
chairing the last EU meeting that involved the UK as a member state.

BBC News - Brexit: Croatia wishes the UK good riddance on leaving the EU

[greenmount]

	Quote:	CodPeace
	I didn't realise you were a Tory, because no-one else is going to win it. Even Labours greatest leader in living memory has reached acceptance: “Brexit is happening, and our attitude now should be to strive to make the best of it; to approach it with determined optimism, not looking over our shoulders in unrequited longing for what was." Labour have a mountain to climb, and just like the Democrats over in the US, they have no leadership material.

You are mixing up US politics with British politics....cute.

You and Tony.

	Quote:	CodPeace
	I didn't realise you were a Tory, because no-one else is going to win it.

Do you also add 2 and 2 and come up with pineapple squared? As for the Blair link...

Highly ridiculous comment. Do you even understand what I wrote?

[amogles]

	Quote:	baboon
	Talking about UK GEs, I managed to shock a Swiss friend last night when I explained to him that Johnson only got 43% of the votes. He just assumed that as he got 56% of the seats he must have received that level of votes. I suspect a lot of Swiss would have the same misunderstanding. He was even more shocked when I explained the House of Lords to him.

Did your Swiss friend explain to you how in the Ständerat the smallest cantons can band together and block stuff, despite being only a tiny minority population-wise?

There are, however, good reasons why it is so.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	CodPeace
	Labour have a mountain to climb, and just like the Democrats over in the US, they have no leadership material.

Yes, it looks very much like the Democrats are about to elect their own version of Jeremy Corbyn, which will end in the same result for them.