The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TonyClifton]

Boris Johnson laid out his objectives for trade on Monday and I must say I was very impressed. Parallel trade talks are going to be held with a number of other nations is a very positive step. Mr Johnson's willingness to accept trade friction at the border is also a sign that he is not desperate and won't be put off by threats.

Michel Barnier also set out the EU's objectives which included the UK continuing with EU Competition and Subsidies policy, ECJ contuing to have a role, fishing access to UK waters and that the UK can never sign a better trade deal elsewhere. Sounds a lot like EU membership to me!

I expect we're heading for quite a crash between the two sides, sooner rather than later.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Boris Johnson laid out his objectives for trade on Monday and I must say I was very impressed. Parallel trade talks are going to be held with a number of other nations is a very positive step. Mr Johnson's willingness to accept trade friction at the border is also a sign that he is not desperate and won't be put off by threats. Michel Barnier also set out the EU's objectives which included the UK continuing with EU Competition and Subsidies policy, ECJ contuing to have a role, fishing access to UK waters and that the UK can never sign a better trade deal elsewhere. Sounds a lot like EU membership to me! I expect we're heading for quite a crash between the two sides, sooner rather than later.

Parallel trade talks are a good idea in principle but Britain simply does not have enough people to do this, simply trying to handle two negotiations with the EU and US will be a big strain. Britain has not handled any trade negotiations for the past 40 years while the EU did this so Britain has no experienced people.

[CodPeace]

	Quote:	Guest
	Happy Brexit all, from Ireland’s newest Citizen 😂

What's happened to Oirish?
Don't tell me he's jumped ship to englishforum.ir already?

I can imagine his introductory post:

	Quote:	StirBee
	Top of the morning to you Sir. Accept me, for I am as Irish as you are. Now, let me tell you what to think.

	Quote:	CodPeace
	What's happened to Oirish? Don't tell me he's jumped ship to englishforum.ir already? I can imagine his introductory post:

Whst on earth are you talking about? You do seem to have a rabid obsession with this Irish passport thing. Is it jealousy?

[Chuff]

	Quote:	CodPeace
	What's happened to Oirish? Don't tell me he's jumped ship to englishforum.ir already? I can imagine his introductory post:

I think StirB got sick of all of the rampant nutjobs and nincompoops on this forum and decided his time was better spent elsewhere and more constructively than engaging with said nutjobs and nincompoops in circular debates. Fair enough, I say.

[NotAllThere]

Yeah, You can be a bit tiresome.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Whst on earth are you talking about? You do seem to have a rabid obsession with this Irish passport thing. Is it jealousy?

There is a particular sort of Americans who think they're more European than the European themselves (grand-grandpa' left Kilkenny county during the famine or something something). And it seems they're on the mission to rescue us. From....communism! EU represents the evil, the communists. Some live in the McCarthy era. Yes, seriously.

	Quote:	greenmount
	There is a particular sort of Americans who think they're more European than the European themselves (grand-grandpa' left Kilkenny county during the famine or something something). And it seems they're on the mission to rescue us. From....communism! EU represents the evil, the communists. Some live in the McCarthy era. Yes, seriously.

Must be exhausting, all that pent up stuff making everything clench.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Parallel trade talks are a good idea in principle but Britain simply does not have enough people to do this, simply trying to handle two negotiations with the EU and US will be a big strain. Britain has not handled any trade negotiations for the past 40 years while the EU did this so Britain has no experienced people.

When all they are trying to do is roll over the EU agreements they might manage to wing it... it does not take much to ask ‘please can we have our old agreement back’

Boris has already decided he is going to accept a Canadian style agreement - screw NI and services along the way. He just has to sell it to the country and use the time clause in the withdrawal agreement to force it through parliament.

The Donald is fixated on winning the popular vote in the US, so he is not going to do any deal that would risk loosing him 30m Irish America voters before the election in November.

So they might have not such a great need for seasoned negotiators after all.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	greenmount
	There is a particular sort of Americans who think they're more European than the European themselves (grand-grandpa' left Kilkenny county during the famine or something something). And it seems they're on the mission to rescue us. From....communism! EU represents the evil, the communists. Some live in the McCarthy era. Yes, seriously.

Yep, “I’m Irish too!”.. and where do you come from?.. “New Mexico”.. as I have been told on one occasion.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Must be exhausting, all that pent up stuff making everything clench.

I remember there were a few of you (who can easily detect if someone is not from UK) who asked TC et co. to admit they're not British. Never happened. As if someone would need a UK pass to debate this theme. Yet, they seem to have a fascination for this thread and speak fervently in favour of Brexit no matter what, Brexit Brexit at all costs, and speak as if it was the best thing that could have happened to your country. As if they were British. No matter how hard, civilised, polite, less polite, how many arguments you brought to make them drop the nonsense they're still here. Making fun of you, laughing at you. Ok, I know in internet terms this is called trolling but still....I have a vague feeling they're also convinced they are right. That they do you a favour if you know what I mean.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Yep, “I’m Irish too!”.. and where do you come from?.. “New Mexico”.. as I have been told on one occasion.

Oh common, you can't blame them. Irish is cool.

I didn't want to focus on a particular nationality, I mentioned Irish because some people here seem obsessed with the Irish. They might be "Irish" at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean they do understand what's happening in Europe.

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	greenmount
	There is a particular sort of Americans who think they're more European than the European themselves (grand-grandpa' left Kilkenny county during the famine or something something). And it seems they're on the mission to rescue us. From....communism! EU represents the evil, the communists. Some live in the McCarthy era. Yes, seriously.

Or maybe there's some people who can simply see the undermining problems with the EU.
And those who see the irony of people moving to a successful non-EU country whilst extolling the virtues of the EU.

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Oh common, you can't blame them. Irish is cool. I didn't want to focus on a particular nationality, I mentioned Irish because some people here seem obsessed with the Irish. They might be "Irish" at the end of the day, but that doesn't mean they do understand what's happening in Europe.

The thing is, depending how you define Irishness, there are a lot more Irish people than you maybe assume. I think in the UK something like 60% have some Irish ancestry, however remote. I guess in ther USA the figure could well be similar. The figure could be even higher for Australia, Canada etc. With people having been emmigrating out of Ireland since time immemorial, this is only logical.

I guess most people don't make much out of their Irishness, other than in jest maybe. But when you meet somebody and get into the smalltalk its natural that you start off by discusisng what you have in comon, however meaningless or irrelevant. That's not the same as having an obsession.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	Or maybe there's some people who can simply see the undermining problems with the EU.

Nope, I can certainty they don't, because they are unaware of the EU and most of what is going on internationally. Their thinking is about 50 years behind.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	Parallel trade talks are a good idea in principle but Britain simply does not have enough people to do this, simply trying to handle two negotiations with the EU and US will be a big strain. Britain has not handled any trade negotiations for the past 40 years while the EU did this so Britain has no experienced people.

You are correct, however this is merely the result of having someone else being responsible for trade talks. Another problem that the UK will have to overcome is attracting talent to the civil service to fill the numbers as the pay is so poor. Nevertheless, I fully support the strategy being adopted. Focusing all resources on getting a deal out of the EU where the early indications are not looking good makes it all the more sensible to start work elsewhere. There is also the added advantage that this may help focus EU minds. Not least when trade talks begin with the US, whilst I think even the most optimistic of people don't believe a trade deal can be struck before the Presidential elections (which is what the US have said is their aim), there are a number of micro deals that can be done, which don't require the approval of US congress and which may also put pressure on the EU.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Nope, I can certainty they don't, because they are unaware of the EU and most of what is going on internationally. Their thinking is about 50 years behind.

Only 50 you say, I figured it was a much older era....
But true. They ingested everything Boris etc have spouted in public without ever bothering to check how accurate or true that is. Everything they wrote about EU has proven to be a big fat lie. I guess it's easy to read anti-EU articles today. Heck, Russia too provides a great deal of anti-EU material, and unsurprisingly these views coincide. Well, it's obvious for those who do bother to check the source of their information....

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Only 50 you say, I figured it was a much older era.... But true. They ingested everything Boris etc have spouted in public without ever bothering to check how accurate or true that is. Everything they wrote about EU has proven to be a big fat lie. I guess it's easy to read anti-EU articles today. Heck, Russia too provides a great deal of anti-EU material, and unsurprisingly these views coincide. Well, it's obvious for those who do bother to check the source of their information....

There were people who stockpiled toilet rolls, who claimed they’d no longer be able to travel to France, who said there would be hundreds of thousands of job losses, who said the EU was responsible for LGBT rights. We’re on day 5 of Brexit and the world has not ended. Now who’s the ones who were lying again?!?

[amogles]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	There were people who stockpiled toilet rolls, who claimed they’d no longer be able to travel to France, who said there would be hundreds of thousands of job losses, who said the EU was responsible for LGBT rights. We’re on day 5 of Brexit and the world has not ended. Now who’s the ones who were lying again?!?

Not to mention that outbreak of gonnorhea, and the total end of western civilisation.

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	Chuff
	I think StirB got sick of all of the rampant nutjobs and nincompoops on this forum and decided his time was better spent elsewhere and more constructively than engaging with said nutjobs and nincompoops in circular debates. Fair enough, I say.

So in other words, he flounced.