The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	Raffles
	The amount of discussions I had over this very thing was unbelievable. They also thought it meant kicking out people from Asian, or African countries. People voting for something they didn't understand, to me personally I believe the politicians played on people's misconceptions allowed racism to rear it's ugly head again in England.

The decades of irresponsible immigration probably didn't help the general mood either.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	The decades of irresponsible immigration probably didn't help the general mood either.

You might find the information in these links interesting and informative.

https://researchbriefings.parliament...ummary/SN05829

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43960088

[CodPeace]

	Quote:	marton
	Another non-native English speaker or just a failure of comprehension? I posted Meaning the EU citizens want to stay in the UK which is fine by me.

Who said it wasn't fine by anyone else on this forum? Certainly not me.
I said 3 million EU citizens want to stay in the UK, BY CHOICE. They are not trapped there.
Sure, would be a right royal PITA to uproot for them, but there is no need for them to do that, hence the UKs EU Settlement Scheme.

I think some members of this forum take the 'Gammons' on here as being extreme right wing, BNP/UKIP, anti-immigrant type people, when in reality, all I see is slightly right of center.

Right, where can I complain about those 9 groans?

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	It makes me chuckle thinking of the Brexit hardliners who expected anyone kicked out starting first of February. It means UK actually needs them but hey ho.

So far I’ve only seen remainers pontificating on people being kicked out. Definitely on the EF this has been the case.

But let’s continue to extrapolate from oneself to others, right ?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Raffles
	The amount of discussions I had over this very thing was unbelievable. They also thought it meant kicking out people from Asian, or African countries. People voting for something they didn't understand, to me personally I believe the politicians played on people's misconceptions, allowed racism to rear it's ugly head again in England.

Blame the stupid voters, those voters did not like being called stupid & not capable of understanding what they voted for. They then voted Tory so their original vote would be counted & acted upon.

[Raffles]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Blame the stupid voters, those voters did not like being called stupid & not capable of understanding what they voted for. They then voted Tory so their original vote would be counted & acted upon.

You are the one saying stupid, I said not understanding what they were voting for. When were you last in the UK talking with anyone at the bottom of the rungs.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Raffles
	You are the one saying stupid, I said not understanding what they were voting for. When were you last in the UK talking with anyone at the bottom of the rungs.

I think they knew exactly what they were voting for & wanted their vote counted which has now happened after more than 3 years, it was so obvious that any party who promised out would win a landslide. Lifetime Labour voters voted Tory against their extinct to get what they had voted for done, they did not change their minds.

It was the remainers who were stupid & so up their own arses, the leavers never called them stupid or uninformed as they were clever enough to know it might backfire.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	It’s hard to have a discussion is you insist on being offended by anything that I write. The two are connected as the UK can only have a single immigration policy. Immigrants were coming from the EU and there was nothing that could be done to limit their numbers then it is logical that the immigrants which suffer are non EU. This all stems back to the time when Theresa May was Home Secretary. Unfortunately Mrs May was obsessed with unrealistic immigration targets.

More nonsense
Most years there were far more non-EU migrants than EU migrants

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think they knew exactly what they were voting for & wanted their vote counted which has now happened after more than 3 years, it was so obvious that any party who promised out would win a landslide. Lifetime Labour voters voted Tory against their extinct to get what they had voted for done, they did not change their minds. It was the remainers who were stupid & so up their own arses, the leavers never called them stupid or uninformed as they were clever enough to know it might backfire.

"It was the remainers who were stupid & so up their own arses, the leavers never called them stupid" Umm, do you see your inconsistency here?

[marton]

	Quote:	CodPeace
	Who said it wasn't fine by anyone else on this forum? Certainly not me. I said 3 million EU citizens want to stay in the UK, BY CHOICE. They are not trapped there. Sure, would be a right royal PITA to uproot for them, but there is no need for them to do that, hence the UKs EU Settlement Scheme. I think some members of this forum take the 'Gammons' on here as being extreme right wing, BNP/UKIP, anti-immigrant type people, when in reality, all I see is slightly right of center. Right, where can I complain about those 9 groans?

In a democracy the majority rules

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	That didn't answer anything, you are just repeating the same nonsense. I'd love to have a discussion with anyone here, but not with people who are deliberately trying to manipulate.

I’m repeating it because it’s true! I am not trying to manipulate anything, for your information I used to be very pro Freedom of Movement, that was until I learned that it only benefits people like me (and I assume you as well). Highly educated and skilled migrants. In the UK free movement of people has depressed the wages of those worst off whilst inflating those of people like me. I don’t think that is fair.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...EEA_report.PDF

[John William]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	As bad as the Windrush scandal was, and it was terrible, it shouldn’t be forgotten that one of the contributing factors towards it was Free Movement of People as part of EU membership. In order to stick to the government’s (crazy) immigration targets they could only focus on non EU immigrants. Non EU immigrants were unfairly targeted due to the protection afforded to EU immigrants from freedom of movement.

What are you talking about - before you post, you should get your historical facts straight
first.

HMT Empire Windrush. The Empire Windrush arrived at Tilbury on 22 June 1948, carrying 493
passengers from Jamaica wishing to start a new life in the United Kingdom.
The passengers (including one stowaway) were the first large group of West Indian
immigrants to the UK after the Second World War.

This being 9 years before the Common Market ( that developed into the EU ) was founded
on the 25th March 1957.

So no EU or even a Common Market, let alone Free Movement of People in 1948.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I’m repeating it because it’s true! I am not trying to manipulate anything, for your information I used to be very pro Freedom of Movement, that was until I learned that it only benefits people like me (and I assume you as well). Highly educated and skilled migrants. In the UK free movement of people has depressed the wages of those worst off whilst inflating those of people like me. I don’t think that is fair. https://assets.publishing.service.go...EEA_report.PDF

According to your link

There is some evidence that lower-skilled workers face a negative impact while higher-skilled workers benefit, however the magnitude of the impacts are generally small.

[gaburko]

	Quote:	marton
	According to your link

He said he's highly educated, so he doesn't need to read

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	marton
	According to your link There is some evidence that lower-skilled workers face a negative impact while higher-skilled workers benefit, however the magnitude of the impacts are generally small.

5% impact is not insignificant and this is before you add in other non measurable factors.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I’m repeating it because it’s true! I am not trying to manipulate anything, for your information I used to be very pro Freedom of Movement, that was until I learned that it only benefits people like me (and I assume you as well). Highly educated and skilled migrants. In the UK free movement of people has depressed the wages of those worst off whilst inflating those of people like me. I don’t think that is fair. https://assets.publishing.service.go...EEA_report.PDF

FOM has certainly depleted the Eastern part of the continent not only of its "brains" but also of those who come on a lower qualified jobs. But also people from Western Europe move around a lot, either as professionals or business owners, small investors, so perhaps I shouldn't have started as if EU agreements affect only some and not the others.
I am still very pro- because it is a compensation for the other "freedoms" - of goods and capital for instance, which has created the same effect you're complaining about only in reverse.

I don't know what is not clear for some people. FOM exists not as a concession. Lots of people/businesses actually do take advantage of it because qualified workforce is an issue in Europe today, everybody wants it, including the less developed states. Everybody misses it.

You should see the hunting Western European unis do in the Eastern part. Or human resources companies or the departments of big companies. Thousands of unis, HR companies come to recruit youth from high school or uni. Have you ever wondered why is that? I am sorry, please spare me the hypocrisy that these people are there only because they want it. They are needed. Heck, we're also going to need people from Asia, South America, Africa etc. while crying we let our own go away and develop other places. Stop making it as if it was just a collateral disadvantage and not the huge advantage of having such a recruiting pool that it actually is.

So some countries considered and decided to give each other preferential, RECIPROCAL treatment in some areas and they should feel guilty exactly because....? Not applying the same preferential treatment to the whole world?

Hard to follow the anti-EU rhetoric.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	5% impact is not insignificant and this is before you add in other non measurable factors.

True, 5% is not insignificant, it is most insignificant.

As your link states the National Living Wage protects the lower-skilled workers from excessive wage exploitation; low skilled migrants can not be paid less than this.
The National Living Wage is an obligatory minimum wage payable to workers in the United Kingdom aged 25 and over which came into effect on 1 April 2016.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Quote: marton According to your link There is some evidence that lower-skilled workers face a negative impact while higher-skilled workers benefit, however the magnitude of the impacts are generally small. 5% impact is not insignificant and this is before you add in other non measurable factors.

Can you just be clear please - when you post a link to support your argument, are we supposed to read it all, including its conclusions, or just let you cherry pick data from it and make all the conclusions for us?

It's just a bit confusing when you disagree with the article you yourself posted.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	greenmount
	So some countries considered and decided to give each other preferential, RECIPROCAL treatment in some areas and they should feel guilty exactly because....? Not applying the same preferential treatment to the whole world? .

The free movement of all types of capital is a fundamental requirement of all single markets including the EU’s single market, so the free movement of Labor is part of that concept and is not optional.

The free movement of certain types of capital is not restricted in national markets either. The UK does not restrict the movement of people within the UK, nor Switzerland or any other state. The EU or more specifically the Euro Group are committed to building a single market and so FMOP is a given. And expecting them to give up on their objectives to satisfy the little Englander was never going to happen.

[Blueangel]

I don't know how accurate this story is, but choose your source

'Gang of illegal immigrants caught trying to flee UK over fear of Brexit rights'
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...paign=sharebar

'Gang of 33 illegal immigrants are caught in a lorry at Calais trying to FLEE the UK from Dover - fearing 'mistreatment' after Brexit'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-FLEE-UK.html