The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I have a feeling that those who want out are deluding themselves that they can do better outside of EU. And oftentimes, some of them forgot how much of their current development they actually owe to being an EU member. I'd let them out just to bite the dust. Perhaps those who are less arrogant will benefit more in the future, I surely hope so.

Which EU country do you live in?

I didn't say that, I was asking if you thought that or not as you've contradicted yourself in two posts.

	Quote:
	So is the UK special or not? Its sovereignty should be maintained or not. Have you or have you not now just agreed that the proverbial cheese is now very firmly with the EU?

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I've already stated enough times that NO the UK is not special, and YES it's critical that sovereignty be reestablished. Read the speech, I share this view almost to the letter. And you're incorrect in saying that the EU has the upper hand in talks now. This government has already accepted there will be trade friction, something that was a no go under the previous government, which was why the EU were able to get as many concessions. You, like many others, seem to see this negotiation as a zero-sum contest. It's not! If no deal is agreed then the damage will be mutually assured!

Am I? Do I really. I haven't said so. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Why is sovereignty critical if the UK is not special?

How will damage be "mutually assured"? This sounds like you've been swallowing what the spin docs are feeding.

	Quote:	Full Circle
	Which EU country do you live in?

Which one do you live in?

I assume GM lives in an EEA country, just like you.

[Full Circle]

	Quote:
	Which one do you live in? I assume GM lives in an EEA country, just like you.

I live here, thankfully not in the EU.

I assumed she lived in an EU country or she's British

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	I live here, thankfully not in the EU. I assumed she lived in an EU country or she's British

What does this have to do with anything. Do you live in the EU or are you British?

Does MusicChick too? Is she British?

Such silly attempts to ad hominem.

	Quote:	Full Circle
	I live here, thankfully not in the EU. I assumed she lived in an EU country or she's British

Why does it matter?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Why does it matter?

It doesn't. Otherwise he and some others wouldn't comment on this thread.

[Full Circle]

	Quote:
	Why does it matter?

It just comes across as a bit selfish to move to a successful non-EU country and bang on about the wonders of the EU.

[hairybadger]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	It just comes across as a bit selfish to move to a successful non-EU country and bang on about the wonders of the EU.

A successful non-EU country which is closely aligned with the EU and has FMOP etc. In any case I don't see that that has any bearing on one's right to have an opinion.

[roegner]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	It just comes across as a bit selfish to move to a successful non-EU country and bang on about the wonders of the EU.

Do you have to live in a specific country to have an opinion? No.


90% of the thread would have to be deleted if only people living in the UK may have an opinion......

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	roegner
	Do you have to live in a specific country to have an opinion? No. 90% of the thread would have to be deleted if only people living in the UK may have an opinion......

She's entitled to her opinion, just as I am to point out the problems I see with it.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Full Circle
	She's entitled to her opinion, just as I am to point out the problems I see with it.

OK. Cool.

But you know, you argument is not really an argument, it's more of a logical fallacy. I didn't move to CH because it's not (theoretically) in the EU (that really had nothing to do with my choice). And the opposite too can be said - "banging on" about the evils of the EU while not really experiencing any of them.

	Quote:	Full Circle
	It just comes across as a bit selfish to move to a successful non-EU country and bang on about the wonders of the EU.

I'd say the really truly selfish position, is that of those Brits who do live in the EU and here- and who voted for Brexit- knowing full well they won't be affected by the consequences, no? And even more so, those who did so and are now beginning to complain that they are affected ...

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Why is sovereignty critical if the UK is not special? How will damage be "mutually assured"? This sounds like you've been swallowing what the spin docs are feeding.

The request for sovereignty is not a special request, do you not see that?! It's the basic foundation of any nation state.

And yes, damage will be mutually assured. Much of Europe is already tipping on the brink of recession, some countries are more reliant on UK trade than others. A failure to reach a deal will impact trade and cause harm. It's not rocket science!

[st2lemans]

"No visas for unqualified workers or non-English speakers"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51550421

Tom

[John William]

Here's my take on Brexit Britain:

Unlike TC, I'm not a fundametalist Brexiteer nor are many in the UK. So I've assumed all along that its
all about the flag and the UK doing their own thing in re-establishing a long forgotten trading empire;
to seek out new trading opportunities, to find new life & new civilizations and to boldly go where
no Brexiteer has been before !!

Yes these are the voyages of the starship Brexit Britain !!

[amogles]

	Quote:
	I'd say the really truly selfish position, is that of those Brits who do live in the EU and here- and who voted for Brexit- knowing full well they won't be affected by the consequences, no?

That argument goes both ways. It would have been better if people not living in the UK had not voted. Period.

[marton]

	Quote:
	which is then mostly sold to the EU- because we don't like our fish- and prefer to import fish caught in the EU for our 'fish and chips'.

And mostly turned into animal feed because nobody else likes those fish either.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Minimum tax rates are set by the EU. State aid is also very highly regulated (see how they went after Ireland for their dealings with Apple). Regarding regulations and standards, the idea of not aligning isn’t to lower them, it’s rather to ensure they better match to the requirements of the UK. Why should the EU be seen as the authority on this matter?!

The EU does not have a direct role in collecting taxes or setting tax rates. The amount of tax each citizen pays is decided by their national government, along with how the collected taxes are spent.
So minimum tax rates are NOT set by the EU.
Source

The EU cannot be seen as the authority on this matter [regulations and standards], the UK had both a vote and a veto on new laws, regulations and standards.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I'd say the really truly selfish position, is that of those Brits who do live in the EU and here- and who voted for Brexit- knowing full well they won't be affected by the consequences, no? And even more so, those who did so and are now beginning to complain that they are affected ...

Those people had a choice at the general election, Tories won a landslide so it's very clear the majority of Brits who could vote wanted to get BREXIT done.

	Quote:	amogles
	That argument goes both ways. It would have been better if people not living in the UK had not voted. Period.

Many Brits who are non resident have an IHT liability at death, they have every right to vote in elections, I have an IHT liability & cannot vote.