Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #27021  
Old 24.02.2020, 22:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,364
Groaned at 412 Times in 306 Posts
Thanked 19,289 Times in 10,375 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
Does anyone actually still believe that Boris is trying to negotiate a Deal with EU.

I don't.
Borris needs to do some other deals first & that is clearly what he will do. EU could have had the first deal but as they will no longer offer a Canadian deal they will need to wait. Borris seems to understand how to negotiate which is a very positive change.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #27022  
Old 24.02.2020, 22:45
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: BaselStadt
Posts: 494
Groaned at 91 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 974 Times in 393 Posts
CodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for contributing to the discussion...
It's hardly a debate, is it?


Seems to me team Center Right have a more balanced and pragmatic outlook than Team Islington though.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank CodPeace for this useful post:
  #27023  
Old 24.02.2020, 22:47
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,209
Groaned at 199 Times in 156 Posts
Thanked 6,721 Times in 3,027 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Borris needs to do some other deals first & that is clearly what he will do. EU could have had the first deal but as they will no longer offer a Canadian deal they will need to wait. Borris seems to understand how to negotiate which is a very positive change.

BS as usual. That would mean that the UK would trade on WTO terms covering 48% of their exports, which according to Boris will be zero tariffs on imports from all 165 members of the WTO, so why would anyone want to bother doing a deal when they already have unrestricted access to the UK market..... especially since they can continue to apply WTO rates on all UK imports.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #27024  
Old 24.02.2020, 23:08
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,745
Groaned at 429 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 17,806 Times in 9,506 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
It's really not that difficult to grasp. In an era where resources are being depleted and people are trying to reduce their carbon footprint, an ever increasing population should not be a goal.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to explain how adding a hundred thousand new immigrants each year doesn't adversely affect the housing shortage?
The world population is steadily increasing.....
Reply With Quote
  #27025  
Old 24.02.2020, 23:15
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,704
Groaned at 202 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 18,343 Times in 7,486 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The world population is steadily increasing.....
Not for too many decades.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #27026  
Old 25.02.2020, 09:02
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,208
Groaned at 160 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 7,331 Times in 3,353 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Un

And the further pressure that they put on UK's limited resources is not a problem?

Sustainable population growth should be the aim, not unlimited growth.
Perhaps you haven't noticed that we all live on the same planet? Over-population is a global problem not restricted to any one single country.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #27027  
Old 25.02.2020, 09:17
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 925
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,149 Times in 1,031 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
Does anyone actually still believe that Boris is trying to negotiate a Deal with EU.

I don't.
What makes you believe that? Mr Johnson has already passed one deal.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #27028  
Old 25.02.2020, 09:37
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,901
Groaned at 339 Times in 234 Posts
Thanked 18,385 Times in 9,554 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Let's assume your point of view is not totally wrong, but you should already know that many jobs are not wanted by the locals. And not necessarily because the pay is low (which is not always the case, by the way) but because that specific work is really hard and/or requires some training or specific skills that people have no desire to retrain for. How do you solve these problems?
I would like to hear about viable solutions....
The country obviously makes it possible - if there are jobs that are not wanted by locals, how about providing incentives for locals to get motivated. Or rather, unproviding the conditions that make it possible. What are the permits depending on again, in Switzerland? Why do people have a problem imagining the same for the UK.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #27029  
Old 25.02.2020, 11:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,760
Groaned at 330 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 7,282 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The world population is steadily increasing.....
Not in Europe though. Those who carefully choose to ignore facts should take a look at demographics in Europe.

Most countries (especially in Eastern Europe) have abnormally low birth-rates. Under replacement rates. Who are these people afraid of? It's ridiculous. Seriously, Europe is afraid of Europeans? Wow.

An interesting article...

https://www.ft.com/content/9b03216c-...9-0bcf87a328f2


Stats for EU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...European_Union

....and for comparison with the....wide world..


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...fertility_rate

Last edited by greenmount; 25.02.2020 at 12:03.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #27030  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The country obviously makes it possible - if there are jobs that are not wanted by locals, how about providing incentives for locals to get motivated. Or rather, unproviding the conditions that make it possible. What are the permits depending on again, in Switzerland? Why do people have a problem imagining the same for the UK.
It's largely a stable door/horse has bolted issue I think. It's irrelevant trying to compare CH and UK, on population size alone I reckon. Also, largely, totally different mindset.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27031  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The country obviously makes it possible - if there are jobs that are not wanted by locals, how about providing incentives for locals to get motivated. Or rather, unproviding the conditions that make it possible. What are the permits depending on again, in Switzerland? Why do people have a problem imagining the same for the UK.
oh but they have tried - if people don't turn up on time, call in sick with backache after 1 day, can't get out of bed- and make mistakes which mean goods are returned from supermarkets and contracts lost (if a crate has to have 12 cauliflowers and the put 10 or 11 in)- if they are rude to customers in the restaurant, can't turn up looking clean and have no social skills, etc etc- what is the employer to do?

I wonder, do you have elderly parents? Can you imagine someone being forced to go and care for your mother or grandmother- who will hate the job, who will hate wiping their bottom or changing their diaper/nappy- or feed them- lose their temper and be unkind- rude, or even violent. Hos does that work?

And force people to go and clean hospitals and toilets- where MRSA is already a problem- who will not want to or be able to, stick to protocols- and risk the life of others?

Or drive large lorries without the experience. Or work on building sites? The list is endless.

So yes- the Governement could say 'no work- no benefits' - and then what? You need an effective, willing and cooperative workforce, with experience. You can't pick people off the street ...It can work with some, you can provide re-training, for some- very successfully- but for many, it just is unlikely to work, sadly.

Others will say, pay them a decent wage for the job and they will do it. But the same applies as above. And who will pay the extra cost? The cost of living in a care home is massive already. And the extra cost will be passed on to customers- same for fruit, veg, poultry or meat, etc.

Sounds so simple - it is NOT.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27032  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

To some extent, we have the same here near the French border. Local unemployed complain about the frontaliers- and that they should have their jobs. But they do not have the skills or qualifications, most of the time. You can't work as a watchmaker or an engineer, or a nurse - etc if you haven't got the training.

I know two youngsters who are on the social here. Nice guys, but a bit 'different'- never get out of bed before 10 or 12- short fuse- can't take any authority, throw stuff ont he floor and slam the door after a few days, or anytime they are given advice. So even in Switzerland, they do get a minimum amount of money- and after 25, they can move out of mum's and dad's and get a flat that will be paid for, and the health insurance too. Because, at the end of the day- employers are better off without them. Sad, but true.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27033  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:46
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
Also, largely, totally different mindset.
Also one other thing. Seasonal vacancies such as those found in the agricultural sector, are often in sparsely populated areas. It's often not economically viable to expect people to relocate for 2 or 3 months work, particularly if they have family commitments.

However, only a couple of years ago, the HR boss of Pret A Manger complained that only 1 in 50 applicants was British. That's not a bad job and they're all over the country.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #27034  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:55
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,859
Groaned at 229 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 22,678 Times in 9,622 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
To some extent, we have the same here near the French border. Local unemployed complain about the frontaliers- and that they should have their jobs. But they do not have the skills or qualifications, most of the time. You can't work as a watchmaker or an engineer, or a nurse - etc if you haven't got the training.

I know two youngsters who are on the social here. Nice guys, but a bit 'different'- never get out of bed before 10 or 12- short fuse- can't take any authority, throw stuff ont he floor and slam the door after a few days, or anytime they are given advice. So even in Switzerland, they do get a minimum amount of money- and after 25, they can move out of mum's and dad's and get a flat that will be paid for, and the health insurance too. Because, at the end of the day- employers are better off without them. Sad, but true.
It is disingeniuous to extrapolate from extreme cases to the median.

There is a whole setup that starts with public perception of status, that says that being a doctor is being better than being a carpenter.

If you want to look at the shortage of carpenters, you need to look at this much more than looking at some individual anecdotal cases of people who are too lazy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #27035  
Old 25.02.2020, 12:58
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 289
Groaned at 201 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 995 Times in 467 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
Sounds so simple - it is NOT.
Definitely a multifaceted problem and more British workers would mean higher prices.

However I still think there's room to improve and I believe the abundance of foreign workers who are willing to work for shitty conditions have made it easier for farmers not to try.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
  #27036  
Old 25.02.2020, 13:03
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,745
Groaned at 429 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 17,806 Times in 9,506 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Interesting times
"EU demands UK keep chlorinated chicken ban to get trade deal, clause in negotiating mandate for Michel Barnier will create hurdle to US-UK deal"

Looks like it will be a fun time negotiation.
Reply With Quote
  #27037  
Old 25.02.2020, 13:10
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
There is a whole setup that starts with public perception of status, that says that being a doctor is being better than being a carpenter.

If you want to look at the shortage of carpenters, you need to look at this much more than looking at some individual anecdotal cases of people who are too lazy.
The example you've chosen is nothing to do with status and a lot to do with the student grants for vocational courses.

I employed several young tradespeople in 2016-2018 and heard the same story time and again. The final year of their training was usually on day release from local businesses who 'funded' their course fees, and could claim back the cost from the government. Problem is, that many of these businesses end the final year apprenticeship a couple months short of the end of the course, once they'd been reimbursed for the fees paid and would have to pay the remaining term fees in full. I heard this from gardeners, a joiner, a decorater and a plasterer, where they were laid off up to 6months (in the case of the joiner) before the end of their college day release and left to pay the remaining course fees themselves, often having to literally beg their tutors to allow them to complete the course.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #27038  
Old 25.02.2020, 13:11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Definitely a multifaceted problem and more British workers would mean higher prices.

However I still think there's room to improve and I believe the abundance of foreign workers who are willing to work for shitty conditions have made it easier for farmers not to try.
Of course. And offer great re-training schemes- but only a certain % of people will be suited. Here in NE, there has been a strong emphasis on retraining for unemployed people- to suit the type of vacancies we have. It is very successful, but certainly NOT for all.

The recent documentary for the BBC recently- where people were given strong incentive to go and work picking veg and working in restaurants - ended up with just too many being able or willing to do the job properly, etc. The agriculture bosses said that if they cannot get season workers and permanent workers from the EU- the only solution will be automation- large investment at first, but then very cheap.

And then what do you do with your local people??? These regions already have massive social problems- what then?
Reply With Quote
  #27039  
Old 25.02.2020, 13:17
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 925
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,149 Times in 1,031 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Interesting times
"EU demands UK keep chlorinated chicken ban to get trade deal, clause in negotiating mandate for Michel Barnier will create hurdle to US-UK deal"

Looks like it will be a fun time negotiation.
I know these are opening positions but the sides are so far apart, it's very difficult to see how they will come to an agreement. Some of the EU demands are just ridiculous that no country would ever agree to. The UK on the other hand appear to be the reasonable ones by simply asking for something that the EU has said was on offer for the last 3 years.

Weird that after 3 years of saying the UK needs to accept an off the peg deal as they're "just a third country", that when the UK agrees to this request, the EU changes their tune and says that the UK is a special country and therefore needs a bespoke deal!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #27040  
Old 25.02.2020, 13:38
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,512
Groaned at 353 Times in 294 Posts
Thanked 12,750 Times in 6,072 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Some of the EU demands are just ridiculous that no country would ever agree to. The UK on the other hand appear to be the reasonable ones by simply asking for something that the EU has said was on offer for the last 3 years.
Since when is the UK accepting anything? And for the UK demands to be reasonable ......
They have been granted a lot of exceptions during their time in the EU. Why should the EU continue that now they have willingly left?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 97 (0 members and 97 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0