The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Where do you NOT have to pay? Not a private insurance like here but a contribution to a state health fund is mandatory everywhere as far as I know and it's the employer's responsibility. Hiring anyone without paying their social contributions is stealing from both the employee and from the state (social funds administered by a state). And you'd be surprised how common this practice is...unfortunately is doesn't reflect on the prices of goods or services, it's just going into some pockets. Edit> my comment is in general, it has nothing to do with Odile's situation.

UK gives it to anyone resident, no requirement to have ever worked or any intention to ever work. There are families of 3 generations that have never worked..... They enjoy an income, home & free health care.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK gives it to anyone resident, no requirement to have ever worked or any intention to ever work. There are families of 3 generations that have never worked..... They enjoy an income, home & free health care.

Most countries in Europe have a minimum income guaranteed by the state and universal health care. It doesn't mean you don't have to pay, it means that everyone will be treated regardless. Or in other words the medical act is not conditioned by having payed in the system.
I know, it sucks when people are not honest. But I have mixed feelings about private insurances. It works here because we're "rich". What do you think, can it work everywhere?

	Quote:	greenmount
	Most countries in Europe have a minimum income guaranteed by the state and universal health care. It doesn't mean you don't have to pay, it means that everyone will be treated regardless. Or in other words the medical act is not conditioned by having payed in the system. I know, it sucks when people are not honest. But I have mixed feelings about private insurances. It works here because we're "rich". What do you think, can it work everywhere?

The swiss system does appear to be a way the insurance companies can make money hand over fist.

And, what you said regarding universal healthcare.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	There are families of 3 generations that have never worked..... They enjoy an income, home & free health care.

Are you talking about trust fund kids again, or landed gentry?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Are you talking about trust fund kids again, or landed gentry?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	The swiss system does appear to be a way the insurance companies can make money hand over fist. And, what you said regarding universal healthcare.

Shows how much you know, the Swiss insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit on basic insurance, they even give refunds if the took to much premium & claims were less.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Are you talking about trust fund kids again, or landed gentry?

Nope as they usually go privately, in any case they will have paid a lot of money into the system.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Shows how much you know, the Swiss insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit on basic insurance, they even give refunds if the took to much premium & claims were less.

It is watched carefully, isn't it. I think given the history with silent accounts in the past, etc., there is a certain mindset of working hard to keep the credibility high. And also for people to not claim what they don't hve the right for.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Shows how much you know, the Swiss insurance companies are not allowed to make a profit on basic insurance, they even give refunds if the took to much premium & claims were less.

Meh. Never said I knew much. I don't like the Swiss system. Hence we no longer live there.
They certainly do ok on supplementary, which I had to take given a couple of conditions they deemed non-standard. As one was very common, was quite surprised.

All I know is I can get very good private healthcare - and Dental - for a lot less than 10 k a year here. And yes, I know, taxes, NI etc etc.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Nope as they usually go privately, in any case they will have paid a lot of money into the system.

Not necessarily. And not if they need emergency / intensive care. That's the universal free NHS.

They can afford the really good lawyers and tax advisors... plus if it's inherited moolah, the offspring didn't pay anything, it's just always been paid for them. They'd have to do something to contribute to society in order to have personally paid in.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Eh? You're equating a living wage with slavery and degradation? You do understand what slavery is, yes? Essentially a subsuming of self? No rights. No protections. No ownership of your own body. You may find your analogy deliciously dramatic but it is certainly not accurate. IMO. Obvs. I'm not an economist. I do know that living on minimum wage stinks.

A Universal Basic Income would be modern slavery. I can think of little more degrading than being entirely dependent on the state for your existence. If one has no value then rights and protections soon become meaningless.

The only difference to the slave owners of old is that at least the slave owners got work out of their slaves. If you pay people money to sit around and do nothing, that's exactly what they will do!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Not necessarily. And not if they need emergency / intensive care. That's the universal free NHS. They can afford the really good lawyers and tax advisors... plus if it's inherited moolah, the offspring didn't pay anything, it's just always been paid for them. They'd have to do something to contribute to society in order to have personally paid in.

As UK residents they will be liable to UK income tax on worldwide income & gains, trust fund kids receive their income as income that is fully taxable.

You are again talking in an authoritative manner without having any real idea of how the UK tax system works.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	As UK residents they will be liable to UK income tax on worldwide income & gains, trust fund kids receive their income as income that is fully taxable. You are again talking in an authoritative manner without having any real idea of how the UK tax system works.

I know how the UK tax system works - I've never had a trust fund though, admittedly. I didn't eay they aren't liable for taxation. I said they hadn't actively contributed to the system.

Yep. They receive it. Don't earn it.

It is lovely you think I sound authoritative though.

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	A Universal Basic Income would be modern slavery. I can think of little more degrading than being entirely dependent on the state for your existence. If one has no value then rights and protections soon become meaningless. The only difference to the slave owners of old is that at least the slave owners got work out of their slaves. If you pay people money to sit around and do nothing, that's exactly what they will do!

This is still an obscene comparison and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

There's no need to get your knickers in a knot about UBI anyway. It'll never happen while folk like you keep voting the way they do - to maintain the "class" status quo etc

Your leap to this hypothetical person who is potentially on UBI as being consequently valueless speaks volumes about your world view. Well, the world view of your crafted persona. The air up there must be pretty thin, eh?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:
	Your leap to this hypothetical person who is potentially on UBI as being consequently valueless speaks volumes about your world view. Well, the world view of your crafted persona. The air up there must be pretty thin, eh?

The only value they have would be a vote.

	Quote:
	There's no need to get your knickers in a knot about UBI anyway. It'll never happen while folk like you keep voting the way they do - to maintain the "class" status quo etc

Amen!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	I know how the UK tax system works - I've never had a trust fund though, admittedly. I didn't eay they aren't liable for taxation. I said they hadn't actively contributed to the system. Yep. They receive it. Don't earn it. It is lovely you think I sound authoritative though.

Fund is liable to CGT with lower allowance than an individual. IHT is paid at 40% at the death of the life Tennant. All income received or not is liable to tax in the UK.

They pay the tax, it does not matter where the income came from.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Fund is liable to CGT with lower allowance than an individual. IHT is paid at 40% at the death of the life Tennant. All income received or not is liable to tax in the UK. They pay the tax, it does not matter where the income came from.

Whoosh.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	As UK residents they will be liable to UK income tax on worldwide income & gains, trust fund kids receive their income as income that is fully taxable. .

The thing about trust funds kids is that their money don't come out of nowhere. There's an entire infrastructure to make those profits possible. If you're looking at taxation from this pov, then they are indeed taxed too little. It's a universal problem not necessarily country specific. While a low taxes system might encourage entrepreneurship as a rule, and I guess we all know it, it's always a difficult job to determine how much we should tax wealth in general.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	The thing about trust funds kids is that their money don't come out of nowhere. There's an entire infrastructure to make those profits possible. If you're looking at taxation from this pov, then they are indeed taxed too little. It's a universal problem not necessarily country specific. While a low taxes system might encourage entrepreneurship as a rule, and I guess we all know it, it's always a difficult job to determine how much we should tax wealth in general.

Thats why poor quality companies pay very high dividends as they know income trusts will be buyers & they are only interested in income & not capital preservation.

Taxation of trusts is actually worse than of an individual, the reason for a trust is to prevent the capital being wasted & control how the money is invested.. I can think of more than 1 person that does not believe their wife or children can look after a large capital sum if he were to die, so it gets put in trust for non existent great grandchildren & gives the income only to his wife & her death their children & then grandchildren. Expenses & 3 lots of 30% IHT will ensure there is almost nothing left for the great grand children.

[Troublawesome]

Right when I said this thread couldn't get any worse, now it's completely off topic. Might as well rename the title.