The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	amogles
	This is my fear exactly. Basic income is at its core a good idea. But of you let the socialist types run away with it, it has all the potential to be a huge train crash.

Well, it can work. But nothing else will

Meaning? Could you elaborate- a bit vague, sorry.

[KiwiSteve]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...l-room-cartoon

[doropfiz]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Both probably, and then it would fail. They did an experiment in Finland I believe, and that failed too.

The study conducted in Finnland was not about "Universal/Unconditional Basic Income". It was an attempt at finding a different way to support those who are registered as unemployed, to see if this would

1. make them feel better, and thereby
2. motivate them to get back to work.

"The Finnish experiment was about partial basic income targeting able-bodied people without work, it was not about universal basic income. That has been a source of major confusion around the experiment and a source of critique of it."

"In the Finnish experiment, a randomly selected group of 2,000 young unemployed and long-term unemployed Finns were paid 560 euros per month for a study period of two years regardless of employment status. The rest of the unemployed in Finland formed the control group."

The Finnish study would be, if re-created in a Swiss context, to compare two groups:
Test Group
Some selected people on RAV (unemployment benefits) who would be paid a flat rate of benefits, while

1. exempting them from the usual RAV requirements to look for work and to participate in work-integration measures set by the RAV,
2. allowing them, if they did manage to earn anything during the period of the study, to keep all this money (no offset against RAV benefits).

Control Group
Other people on RAV with more or less similar characteristics.

The reason this experiment was said to have failed was because, although some of those people reported feeling better, they did not achieve more days of employment. However, a very low percentage replied to the survey.

Besides that, there were several methodoligical weaknesses. In addition, the regulations governing the control group changed part-way through the study period, so the comparison is no longer clean, anyway.
https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/nord...ome-experiment

[Troublawesome]

Can a mode please close this thread? Let it die in peace.

The last 50 pages are completely off topic.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	Can a mode please close this thread? Let it die in peace. The last 50 pages are completely off topic.

Agree. Let it die in peace, as UK's membership to EU.

May them both rest in peace.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	Can a mode please close this thread?

Why? Brexit is still on the program despite the EF meandering.

I read that Italy isn't too happy with the EU management.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Why? Brexit is still on the program despite the EF meandering. I read that Italy isn't too happy with the EU management.

I haven't noticed too many Italians on EF very anti-EU.

Or if you plan to have a stable anti-EU agenda on this forum, just say so.
Apparently this forum will be what a couple of mods want it to be.

It's a pity it started as a way to connect expats living in CH and it gradually turned into a political forum leaning to the (far) right. But hey, at least let's admit it and be honest about it.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I haven't noticed too many Italians on EF very anti-EU. Or if you plan to have a stable anti-EU agenda on this forum, just say so. Apparently this forum will be what a couple of mods want it to be. It's a pity it started as a way to connect expats living in CH and it gradually turned into a political forum leaning to the (far) right. But hey, at least let's admit it and be honest about it.

I assume that MC is referring to the "Corona bonds" or EU financial support for the pandemy and the financial conditions. Italy is not too happy with the conditions but that is something really different than being anti EU.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I assume that MC is referring to the "Corona bonds" or EU financial support for the pandemy and the financial conditions. Italy is not too happy with the conditions but that is something really different than being anti EU.

No, there are reports on Italian euroscepticism growing. In Czech but you can run it through a translator if you care. https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/zahranic...zahranicni_aha

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Or if you plan to have a stable anti-EU agenda on this forum, just say so.

You are again very personal. You will just have to accept that there are members with different opinions.

If this BREXIT thread bothers you so much that you wish to have it closed for everybody, ignore the tread.

[TonyClifton]

Brexit talks still underway, Monsieur Barnier by all accounts is getting frustrated with the UKs position. Good! Imagine how much time, cost and energy could have been saved if Mrs May had taken this approach!

[greenmount]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	You are again very personal. You will just have to accept that there members with different opinions. If this BREXIT thread bothers you so much that you wish to have it closed for everybody, ignore the tread.

Why this emotional outburst. I wasn't personal, I tried to make sure I understand the EF's official position on maintaining the thread. You are a mod, I guess you replied in that quality. I'm not bothered in the least, it was other members' repeated suggestions to have it closed and I happen to agree.

I maintain my position that transforming an expat forum into a political one without much accountability is wrong.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	You are again very personal. You will just have to accept that there are members with different opinions. If this BREXIT thread bothers you so much that you wish to have it closed for everybody, ignore the tread.

Where was GM being very personal?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Where was GM being very personal?

Yeah, funny. Being personal with people you accuse of being personal isn't very constructive, but in all fairness I've seen worse on EF.

Let's leave it at that. If things on EF will really bother some people one day, I'm sure there are some legal ways we can use.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Why this emotional outburst. I wasn't personal, I tried to make sure I understand the EF's official position on maintaining the thread. You are a mod, I guess you replied in that quality. I'm not bothered in the least, it was other members' repeated suggestions to have it closed and I happen to agree. I maintain my position that transforming an expat forum into a political one without much accountability is wrong.

You can so maintain your position. But the thread will not be closed because of it.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Yeah, funny. Being personal with people you accuse of being personal isn't very constructive, but in all fairness I've seen worse on EF. Let's leave it at that. If things on EF will really bother some people one day, I'm sure there are some legal ways we can use.

It's all just forum rough and tumble, isn't it? Or so I have been reliably informed...

[3Wishes]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Why this emotional outburst. I wasn't personal, I tried to make sure I understand the EF's official position on maintaining the thread. You are a mod, I guess you replied in that quality. I'm not bothered in the least, it was other members' repeated suggestions to have it closed and I happen to agree. I maintain my position that transforming an expat forum into a political one without much accountability is wrong.

EF doesn't have a position on this thread, as best I can tell. Why? Because it's owned by a company based in Sweden and "managed" by a bunch of volunteers who are members first and mods second.

I tend to let topics meander a bit because that's the nature of online forums. Only when they devolve into repeated personal attacks do I close them. Note I'm speaking for myself here, certainly not for our owners and not on behalf of the mod team.

If someone doesn't like the topics that get more attention, they can start a new topic. Our membership seems to gravitate heavily towards political topics these days, and that's not because mods insist upon it or anything. It's what gets people fired up so they (the members) post about it.

If someone is so upset about how far off-topic a thread is, how about posting something to get it back on topic instead? The complaint itself is also OT, isn't it??

Here, I'll start:

Last I knew, there was some sort of deadline to negotiate something coming up in June. Johnson had said there wouldn't be any extension. A bunch of stuff is supposed to be done by December as well. Given Johnson's personal illness, the whole covid-19 global mess, etc. does anyone think those so-called red lines are going to be moved again?

Calling other members 'lobotimized' or 'hysterical' for having a different opinion is quite 'personal' - even if not aimed at a single individual, is it ?

''Well, it can work. But nothing else will '' you posted this re universal income, and I politely asked you to explain what you meant, as it is not clear at all. An answer would be polite and fair, no? Thank you.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	''Well, it can work. But nothing else will '' you posted this re universal income, and I politely asked you to explain what you meant, as it is not clear at all. An answer would be polite and fair, no? Thank you.

Ah but some people are very picky about which posts they respond to even when asked directly and repeatedly.