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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #27341  
Old 26.04.2020, 23:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

''Well, it can work. But nothing else will'' - I have asked you politely to explain what you meant here, re universal salary- why not try and explain, as it is very vague and I do not understand. No malice or 'campaign' in my question- so why not clarify?

Did anyone else understand MC's comment? Perhaps someone else who understood could help me here- as it seems MC has no intention to do so. Thanks.
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  #27342  
Old 27.04.2020, 02:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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With Boris in his sickbed until at least tomorrow, it is not surprising that not much is happening.
Not so quick marton The PM returned to No.10 today via the back door and in a Volkswagen minibus. This has sparked concern amongst the press on Downing Street at the time of his return as the PM has 3 armoured Jags at his disposal and isn't supposed to be transported in a less secure manor. All I can think of is that he still needs a home oxygen therapy machine and it wouldn't fit into the foot well of the Jags.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...snt-sf-twitter

Anyway, the source is the same person who broke the news that the PM;s partner was pregnant about 4 days before they went public, and has been picked up by several other fleet street political editors. PM's partner and dog have remained at Chequers for the time being. Something's afoot and I'm wondering if PM has only returned in order to tender his temporary side step or resignation from the role to HM.
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  #27343  
Old 27.04.2020, 09:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not so quick marton The PM returned to No.10 today via the back door and in a Volkswagen minibus. This has sparked concern amongst the press on Downing Street at the time of his return as the PM has 3 armoured Jags at his disposal and isn't supposed to be transported in a less secure manor. All I can think of is that he still needs a home oxygen therapy machine and it wouldn't fit into the foot well of the Jags.

.....

Something's afoot and I'm wondering if PM has only returned in order to tender his temporary side step or resignation from the role to HM.

Well I heard the government 'super spreader' was actually BoJo's dog Dilan!
And now the queen will invite that very popular and giant of British politiics Jeremy Corbyn to take over!
Brexit will be cancelled, and the UK will send all the Shearings coaches to Romania to get the fruit pickers to save the harvest.
Meantime, Jiff has been certified as a cure, but only if applied to the skin with a brillo pad.
You couldn't make this stuff up!
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  #27344  
Old 27.04.2020, 09:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not so quick marton The PM returned to No.10 today via the back door and in a Volkswagen minibus. This has sparked concern amongst the press on Downing Street at the time of his return as the PM has 3 armoured Jags at his disposal and isn't supposed to be transported in a less secure manor. All I can think of is that he still needs a home oxygen therapy machine and it wouldn't fit into the foot well of the Jags.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...snt-sf-twitter

Anyway, the source is the same person who broke the news that the PM;s partner was pregnant about 4 days before they went public, and has been picked up by several other fleet street political editors. PM's partner and dog have remained at Chequers for the time being. Something's afoot and I'm wondering if PM has only returned in order to tender his temporary side step or resignation from the role to HM.
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  #27345  
Old 27.04.2020, 09:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well I heard the government 'super spreader' was actually BoJo's dog Dilan!
And now the queen will invite that very popular and giant of British politiics Jeremy Corbyn to take over!
Brexit will be cancelled, and the UK will send all the Shearings coaches to Romania to get the fruit pickers to save the harvest.
Meantime, Jiff has been certified as a cure, but only if applied to the skin with a brillo pad.
You couldn't make this stuff up!
They should send our medics and nurses in return for the fruit pickers then. Or keep there those people who work during the pandemic should they get sick. What else will UK "import" next from us, let me think - construction workers, elderly care workers, IT engineers...in short business as before Brexit?
So what was Brexit for again? Maybe you and TonyClifton could answer that.

Oh, something something about the British having a fair chance to work....right.

Do your homework and don't read only the headlines... They depend on work from abroad and the greatest dependency is on the highly qualified types.

In all fairness not only UK. But they were the most vicious about it all. I wouldn't laugh at people who want to work as opposed to sit on benefits and expect something something from the state btw.
I suppose you're in CH as an immigrant too and there is some sort of exchange between you and CH.

Last edited by greenmount; 27.04.2020 at 10:12.
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  #27346  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK has certainly not got a higher budget, and it has a very depleted currency which makes buying very difficult. Those with high value currencies have a much higher supply of PPE and anything else. All very nice to talk about making it easier to export - but export what???

No Deal Brexit was a terrible proposition before Covid19 - by the time it is over (if .. and when) the UK will be almost bankrupt and it will be even much worse. The EU will also be in trouble- but they have seen the value of cooperation in this crisis - and will be keen to work as a collaborative team to survive.
The UK is far wealthier than Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain for a start.

UK will thrive without the handcuffs of the EU & the additional debts caused by CV
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  #27347  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They should send our medics and nurses in return for the fruit pickers then. Or keep there those people who work during the pandemic should they get sick. What else will UK "import" next from us, let me think - construction workers, elderly care workers, IT engineers...in short business as before Brexit?
So what was Brexit for again? Maybe you and TonyClifton could answer that.

Oh, something something about the British having a fair chance to work....right.

Do your homework and don't read only the headlines... They depend on work from abroad and the greatest dependency is on the highly qualified types.

In all fairness not only UK. But they were the most vicious about it all. I wouldn't laugh at people who want to work as opposed to sit on benefits and expect something something from the state btw.
I suppose you're in CH as an immigrant too and there is some sort of exchange between you and CH.

Someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning.
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  #27348  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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West Germany had half their WWII debt cancelled in 1953, East Germany never paid anything.
er, no.

The Russians took out everything they could. They went into factories and dismantled machines and sent them back to Russia. They ripped out railway lines and sent the tracks back to Russia. They seized cattle and harvests and sent that back to Russia. They even kept many of their German POWs and made them work in Russian factories well into the early 1950s. OK, East Germany got some token gifts in return, mostly tanks and uniforms and things, but all the stuff that was taken needed to be replaced and while West Germany boomed economically in the 1950s, thanks in part to aid from the USA. East Germany was essentially still in survival mode and trying to mend stuff they didn't have. Per capita, the East Germans paid far more than the West Germans in terms of war tribute and the consequences thereof.
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  #27349  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK has certainly not got a higher budget, and it has a very depleted currency which makes buying very difficult. Those with high value currencies have a much higher supply of PPE and anything else. All very nice to talk about making it easier to export - but export what???
I thought the port of Dover was going to be clogged up with trucks post-no-dreal-Brexit. But we have nothing to export?
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK is far wealthier than Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain for a start.

UK will thrive without the handcuffs of the EU & the additional debts caused by CV
I think CV will destabilize everyone, UK included. But individual governments (UK included) might have realized how important is investing in their own workers, doctors, ITs, nurses, strawberry pickers instead of picking the experts of other governments who can pay them less. They are needed at home where its been invested in them via training. Cantons here do it with certificates with canton specific validity. The country as a whole does it through allowing some certifs to pass and some taking ages to pass and some not.

In the time of crisis it pays to have your own protection, research, material, your own trained staff, etc. But exchange knowhow, participate, lend a hand..sure. That works easier if you have your own base covered first.
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think CV will destabilize everyone, UK included. But individual governments (UK included) might have realized how important is investing in their own workers, doctors, ITs, nurses, strawberry pickers instead of picking the experts of other governments who can pay them less. They are needed at home where its been invested in them via training. Cantons here do it with certificates with canton specific validity. The country as a whole does it through allowing some certifs to pass and some taking ages to pass and some not.

In the time of crisis it pays to have your own protection, research, material, your own trained staff, etc. But exchange knowhow, participate, lend a hand..sure. That works easier if you have your own base covered first.
Unfortunately, Britain as a whole has not been very efficient at taking care of itself. If you look for example at the history of the steel industry, it's been one long slow and painful drama caused by a mix of different reasons which are maybe outside the scope of this thread, but that maybe include short-term thinking, management incompetence, government meddling and greedy unions. The same set of causes that brought down British Leyland for example. Germany has done a far better job despite more adverse conditions.

I'm not claiming to know how to get out of this mess. But trying something different is certainly a good starting point.
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Old 27.04.2020, 12:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Unfortunately, Britain as a whole has not been very efficient at taking care of itself. If you look for example at the history of the steel industry, it's been one long slow and painful drama caused by a mix of different reasons which are maybe outside the scope of this thread, but that maybe include short-term thinking, management incompetence, government meddling and greedy unions. The same set of causes that brought down British Leyland for example. Germany has done a far better job despite more adverse conditions.

I'm not claiming to know how to get out of this mess. But trying something different is certainly a good strating point.
You know, many smaller and bigger places have been depleted by the mantra of the lame globalism excuse, ie killing its own industries, importing stuff in a quality we no longer have control over nor cannot improve, exchanging competence and skills for lego like imported foreign kits that people with no edu (read people that government doesn't want to invest in through competitive education despite them wanting and being worth of the investment through taxes they will keep paying when staying in the country) can operate...what happens when kits cannot come, import halts, staff is locked outside, research stops getting funded from abroad? What happens? Charity and relying on it. It keeps for a while as a bandaid, but unreliably and not for long. There is this heavy moral pressure all of a sudden on everyone to compensate for what hasn't been taken care of because the danger didn't seem immediate.

UK is still an amazingly attractive place to be for many reasons, hence I was never one bit worried about being on its own without the EU. Humor is probably no. 1. I am kidding. Somewhat. Was I worried ever about other places exiting? Yes. Big time. But small and poor places aren't taken care of by their own govs if people keep running away and that needs to change. I am not talking about trying out a new place to learn more kinda edu top up or family reunification, but really running away. Nobody de-roots easily unless there is a reason. People are tribal and social creatures.

I know this is condenced again, sorry. I am spreading myself a tad thin at the mo.

People get invested in here, Germany invests in its communities, too. It makes everything a lot more stable especially during crisis while not killing the competetiveness.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 27.04.2020 at 12:20.
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  #27353  
Old 27.04.2020, 12:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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er, no.

The Russians took out everything they could. They went into factories and dismantled machines and sent them back to Russia. They ripped out railway lines and sent the tracks back to Russia. They seized cattle and harvests and sent that back to Russia. They even kept many of their German POWs and made them work in Russian factories well into the early 1950s. OK, East Germany got some token gifts in return, mostly tanks and uniforms and things, but all the stuff that was taken needed to be replaced and while West Germany boomed economically in the 1950s, thanks in part to aid from the USA. East Germany was essentially still in survival mode and trying to mend stuff they didn't have. Per capita, the East Germans paid far more than the West Germans in terms of war tribute and the consequences thereof.
Think of a place that was demolished by fashists and then depleted the same way by Russians for 50 years. No help. I don't know how they did it to survive, morally. But I would never blame them for being sceptical, suspitious or not trusting without thinking for themselves. EU doesn't want autonomous units thinking for themselves. The president of EU criticised closing borders when Covid19 started. The only countries who are ok closed their borders immediately, actively went against EU stands.
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Old 27.04.2020, 13:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Unfortunately, Britain as a whole has not been very efficient at taking care of itself. If you look for example at the history of the steel industry, ...
40yrs since someone tried to turn the UK into an office, this is the result.

Primary industry - what remains is too often reliant on subsidies.
Secondary industry - part of global supply chain and international manufacturing & production
Tertiary industry - the predominant bread winner for the country as a whole.

That's your problem right there. No food security to meet standard demands. No pharmaceutical security to meet standard demands. And FFS!!! The country can't even manufacture PPE for it's front line medical staff. 30yrs ago, I knew literally dozens of girls who worked in sewing factories making medical standard clothing and armed forces uniforms, but they were all closed down in the early '90s. The skills are still there, samed as with the steel industry, but nobody has the gumption to utilise them.
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Old 27.04.2020, 13:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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40yrs since someone tried to turn the UK into an office, this is the result.
You are conveniently forgetting the striking workers, Do you remember Red Robbo at British Leyland? he called some sort of strike most weeks. With such a useless workforce why would anyone invest? Perhaps the Teachers pension fund
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  #27356  
Old 27.04.2020, 13:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...The skills are still there, samed as with the steel industry, but nobody has the gumption to utilise them.
I think it's more like this: no one wants to pay higher prices, which is what would need to happen if more was produced within the UK and people were paid a living wage for their work. Bargain prices come with a price, so to speak.
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Old 27.04.2020, 13:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think CV will destabilize everyone, UK included. But individual governments (UK included) might have realized how important is investing in their own workers, doctors, ITs, nurses, strawberry pickers instead of picking the experts of other governments who can pay them less. They are needed at home where its been invested in them via training. Cantons here do it with certificates with canton specific validity. The country as a whole does it through allowing some certifs to pass and some taking ages to pass and some not.

In the time of crisis it pays to have your own protection, research, material, your own trained staff, etc. But exchange knowhow, participate, lend a hand..sure. That works easier if you have your own base covered first.
Doesn't CH import a lot of medical professionals (surgeons etc)?
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Old 27.04.2020, 14:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I thought the port of Dover was going to be clogged up with trucks post-no-dreal-Brexit. But we have nothing to export?
The other way round ... as UK customs will have to move to Dover (currently done on French side where they have tons of space) - have you ever been to Dover. Perhaps like Raab you are not very 'au fait' with local geography?
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Old 27.04.2020, 15:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The other way round ... as UK customs will have to move to Dover (currently done on French side where they have tons of space) - have you ever been to Dover. Perhaps like Raab you are not very 'au fait' with local geography?
So if the congestion is going to be everywhere between Dover and the M25, please inform those who are not so au fait with local geography where then the customs post will be. If it's on the M25, doesn't that place most of Kent on the EU side thereof? If it's closer to Dover, surely any congestion on the landside thereof is caused by outgoing traffic?
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Old 27.04.2020, 15:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

On the French side ...as they are now- tons of space, in the EU- simple. There is nowhere on the UK side- unless you want to bulldose the White Cliffs of Dover- and our Vera and the Brexiters would NOT be happy, oder?
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