The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:
	Posts need to be clear. Oder?

sometimes all of us make posts which are unclear, for one reason or other... but then if clarification is asked for- the poster ... clariifies- job done. Simple.

	Quote:
	Cannot decide which dupe you are ... but a dupe you must detinitely be. Sweet of you to leap to the defence of someone after "only" being here 4 months.

Are you saying people left, their history and posts all removed, and were able to return with clear history and new EF name??? I was told last year this was not possible to do - ever. A name change was possible, but with full history attached- and even if a member left, the history would remain. Strange.

	Quote:
	Are you saying people left, their history and posts all removed, and were able to return with clear history and new EF name??? I was told last year this was not possible to do - ever. A name change was possible, but with full history attached- and even if a member left, the history would remain. Strange.

Under / because of GDPR you can now exercise your right to "be forgotten " and all traces scrubbed - it's why there are so many Guest posters now.

You can of course just stop posting and leave your named footprint.

By dupe I mean a current or previously banned member creating a duplicate account and posting as a (remarkably clued up) newbie.

Ymmv

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Who knows. I guess no-one should ask anything then? I think it's completely useless to have certain discussions on internet fora anyway. Lack of accountability is only one of the reasons. But I'm pretty sure this discussion will go on in the same style and with the same "reliability" as long as this forum will somehow survive.....despite everything.

What you conclude (worded as a question) has nothing to do with what I wrote.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	sometimes all of us make posts which are unclear, for one reason or other... but then if clarification is asked for- the poster ... clariifies- job done. Simple.

Agreed, but if the speaker can't be bothered that's just that. Sometimes we can't but note a reaction, or lack thereof in this case.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	me.anon
	Maybe it is the general principle that you do not bite the hand that is feeding you, even if you consider that that hand has a distasteful yellow tinge to it. The EU members are highly reliant of goods from China and are learning slowly that clamoring over each other to gain the epithet of the US's most servile lackey has no long future to it.

I had to groan you for the racial slur.

China are about to learn that actions have consequences, the EU should want to be on the right side of this upcoming confrontation.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	What you conclude (worded as a question) has nothing to do with what I wrote.

I'll make it more clear for you to see what I was trying to say then: you said it's not polite to ask the same thing repeteadly. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

If it's not polite to ask the same thing a few times, then my obviously rhetorical question was - what is polite after all. Let's make a list with impolite and polite things on internet fora. But I'll give you just a couple of examples. What about insisting to impose one's views maybe? I personally think it's impolite, others might see it differently.

Pretending one is only here to support a balanced discussion then turning the thread into something that has nothing to do anymore with the original topic? I think it is impolite too. The point is - if people want to have the upper hand in so-called internet discussions, they should apply to themselves first whatever they ask from others. If you want others to be receptive and open to your ideas, it might be helpful to be receptive and open too. Respectful. Arrogance doesn't "ease" any discussion. Telling people how to react even less so.

I might be old-fashioned, but I expect people to live by that old "Put your money where your mouth is." (or practice what you preach)

And, even if people would debate in a respectful manner, there's still a lot of stuff that is presented here as 'information' which is simply false. Hence the lack of accountability I was talking about.

I wonder what will happen when marton will get tired of constantly asking people to check their facts first.

Have fun.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Agreed, but if the speaker can't be bothered that's just that. Sometimes we can't but note a reaction, or lack thereof in this case.

They could be bothered to write a snarky reply with a quote of the question being asked, they just couldn’t be bothered to clarify a statement that was incredibly unclear.
Par for the course really.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Agreed, but if the speaker can't be bothered that's just that. Sometimes we can't but note a reaction, or lack thereof in this case.

Well yes, you have a point. But when the person can't be bothered, but at the same time turns the question into something very unpleasant and personal - then it does become ... both. Why the ''Except I did not, Odile, and getting tired of your campaign ... People will answer to those who argue in good faith.' My question was very simple, not an argument. I still don't think anyone here understood the statement made at the time.

A very different kettle of fish indeed and totally un-necessary- why oh why?. Perhaps best to keep away.

[me.anon]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I had to groan you for the racial slur. China are about to learn that actions have consequences, the EU should want to be on the right side of this upcoming confrontation.

Yeah. Right. So you maintain a constant anti-China diatribe in multiple threads on this forum, never missing an opportunity to paste in, verbatim from sections of the main stream media, even the widest allegations against China and the Chinese, then appear to take umbrage at an imagined racial slur of which, anyway, you would not have been the target, and follow it us by some obsequious apology for groaning at me.

Anyway, on the theme of racism, it seems the this is perfectly in vogue. It is only important to select the right target. Russophobia is positively encouraged, now Sinophobia. Especially if is useful for the internal politics to have an external bogeyman. Who next ?

On the subject of where the blame lies for the pandemic and its repercussions, what is clear also is that in-actions also have consequences.
When China was building huge hospital complexes in a matter of days, the rest of the world was talking about seasonal flu, herd immunity etc. And what were their [the rest of the world's] intelligence services reporting at the time ? That it was all a publicity stunt without a hint that it should be taken seriously? It may well be that the we will see the presentation of the same sort of "intelligence" against China that was used to underpin the Russophobia campaign, which was ultimately demonstrated to be a thoroughly bogus concoction, and I agree that EU should be on the "right side" of that. I cannot see though that China can be any more responsible the consequences of the pandemic that the US would be if, say, Yellowstone Caldera blows up in a big way rendering a significant part of the planet uninhabitable.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I had to groan you for the racial slur. China are about to learn that actions have consequences, the EU should want to be on the right side of this upcoming confrontation.

EU that you wouldn't give any credit to? That EU?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I had to groan you for the racial slur. China are about to learn that actions have consequences, the EU should want to be on the right side of this upcoming confrontation.

You obviously meant the UK, since big trading blocks are able to take care of themselves, were as want be junior partners begging for trade deals... a different matter. Will be amusing to see the BREXIT dance over the next year or two.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	You obviously meant the UK, since big trading blocks are able to take care of themselves, were as want be junior partners begging for trade deals... a different matter. Will be amusing to see the BREXIT dance over the next year or two.

Will your grand trading block just folded under the slightest pressure from Beijing. Was that a demonstration of who is the junior partner in that relationship or just an example of the EU not being fit for purpose?

[amogles]

	Quote:
	By dupe I mean a current or previously banned member creating a duplicate account and posting as a (remarkably clued up) newbie.

If somebody was banned, maybe ..

But a current poster? What's the value of having two accounts just to post the same stuff twice?

If I had a second account, I would create a totally different persona with radically different points of view. Then I could troll people from both sides simultaneously.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Well yes, you have a point. But when the person can't be bothered, but at the same time turns the question into something very unpleasant and personal - then it does become ... both. Why the ''Except I did not, Odile, and getting tired of your campaign ... People will answer to those who argue in good faith.' My question was very simple, not an argument. I still don't think anyone here understood the statement made at the time. A very different kettle of fish indeed and totally un-necessary- why oh why?. Perhaps best to keep away.

The degree to which you keep insisting is remarkable.

Can you honestly say that you always answered every question that anybody on the EF asked you?

[amogles]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	We had that too, what amogles mentioned that happened in Germany.. People active in anti nazi dissent turning into post WWII commie colaborators and eventually contributing to the same terror that they initially fought against, just under a different name. I understand the twist as an unethical but still a mode of Darwinian self preservation and survival. Yet, part of me finds it completely incomprehensible. Tragic cases of confirmation bias.

I think it was more than Darwinian self preservation.

Some such people were not fighting against the nazis because they had a problem with the terror or the injustice, but they were fighting against the nazis because they wanted to be in power themselves.

In the years prior to the nazis coming to power in Germany there was an open rivalry between the Nazis and the Communists, sometimes they even fought open street battles. They assasinated one another's leaders. They played dirty games. They undermined democracy and demonstrated their power through thug rule. It wasn't all about good guys vs bad guys, but in many cases it was bad guys murdering one another. It was just a matter of chance the nazis won and came to power. Had some details in history turned out differently it could just as well have been the communists who could have come to power. What would have happened then is a matter of speculation.

Many of these communists went into hiding or pretended to support the nazis while biding their time. When the war was over all they needed do was come out of hiding. Decency never came into it.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Not for me it does not. Someone has just explained past events- when I was not active here on EF.

Well then how about starting a new thread and discussing it in detail there, in an open minded and non personal way.

[roegner]

Can we maybe get back on track here please?

	Quote:	amogles
	If somebody was banned, maybe .. But a current poster? What's the value of having two accounts just to post the same stuff twice? If I had a second account, I would create a totally different persona with radically different points of view. Then I could troll people from both sides simultaneously.

So would I!

[Full Circle]

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	Ah but if they’d been here longer they’d know the history and wouldn’t be so quick to make bullying accusations.

I call it how I see it.
What else do you call it when a group mobs one person?