The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I'll make it more clear for you to see what I was trying to say then: you said it's not polite to ask the same thing repeteadly. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Correct.

	Quote:	greenmount
	If it's not polite to ask the same thing a few times, then my obviously rhetorical question was - what is polite after all.

Rhetorical questions don't expect an answer. Which begs the question why you posted that at all.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Let's make a list with impolite and polite things on internet fora. But I'll give you just a couple of examples. What about insisting to impose one's views maybe? I personally think it's impolite, others might see it differently. Pretending one is only here to support a balanced discussion then turning the thread into something that has nothing to do anymore with the original topic? I think it is impolite too. The point is - if people want to have the upper hand in so-called internet discussions, they should apply to themselves first whatever they ask from others. If you want others to be receptive and open to your ideas, it might be helpful to be receptive and open too. Respectful. Arrogance doesn't "ease" any discussion. Telling people how to react even less so.

Not sure how to understand that, whether you're addressing me individually with it or whether it's meant in a generic sense. Can you clarify, are you saying I'm telling other people what to do? If not, who does or just did?

[Viclajina]

Well, this thread seems to have gone waaaay off the original question.
Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about. Not a representative sample..just one gals opinion.
But then again I confess to being an Anglophile and am also influenced by my dad a US Colonel ( retired) who was always hugely complimentary about British soldiers and their capabilities. He wasn’t too impressed with the continental Europeans in that respect and when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

	Quote:	Viclajina
	Well, this thread seems to have gone waaaay off the original question. Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about. Not a representative sample..just one gals opinion. But then again I confess to being an Anglophile and am also influenced by my dad a US Colonel ( retired) who was always hugely complimentary about British soldiers and their capabilities. He wasn’t too impressed with the continental Europeans in that respect and when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

I'm struggling to see what Swiss soldiers have even remotely to do with the EU.

Or indeed what the whole of your post remotely adds to the debate here.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Viclajina
	Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about.

Really you don't think give up all of your trade agreements, plus access to sell your financial services heading into probably the worst recession in a 100 years, is not something to be concerned about?

	Quote:	Viclajina
	when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

I don't see how it is relevant to this argument, but Google militia before start coming out with these types to statement, it will save your embarrassment.

[curley]

My agenda said "Brexit" yesterday. And I forgot why, LOL. Was it supposed to happen May 14th? Did it happen?

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Viclajina
	Well, this thread seems to have gone waaaay off the original question. Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about. Not a representative sample..just one gals opinion. But then again I confess to being an Anglophile and am also influenced by my dad a US Colonel ( retired) who was always hugely complimentary about British soldiers and their capabilities. He wasn’t too impressed with the continental Europeans in that respect and when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

I think "going home to see mom and dad for the weekend" are key words here. This place thankgod hasn't been and isn't in the situation to have the need for personnel to perform like soldiers at war. It is unfair to judge them on the experiences of places that are worse off in that aspect. It is not any lack of professionalism if society makes it so good and cushy for them. I am grateful for that because the society makes it so good for all of us, not just soldiers. Plus know this perceived lack of professionalism really isn't the case in other areas. Just wanted to say that without making any reflections about British soldiers and their capabilities.

[amogles]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I think "going home to see mom and dad for the weekend" are key words here. This place thankgod hasn't been and isn't in the situation to have the need for personnel to perform like soldiers at war. It is unfair to judge them on the experiences of places that are worse off in that aspect. It is not any lack of professionalism if society makes it so good and cushy for them. I am grateful for that because the society makes it so good for all of us, not just soldiers. Plus know this perceived lack of professionalism really isn't the case in other areas. Just wanted to say that without making any reflections about British soldiers and their capabilities.

Exactly, in Britain soldiers do not typically wear their uniforms while off duty. So when British soldiers catch the train to go home for the weekend, or pop into the pub while waiting for the train, you probably wouldn't recognize them as such. Neither do they take their rifles and kit with them.

The reason soldiers get to take their uniforms, rifles and kit home is that the Swiss army is conceived as a citizen milita. This again has to do with the democratic roots of Swiss society, in which all power ultimately lies in the hand of the people. They don't stop being soldiers the moment they step outside the door of the barracks.

In Britain, which has a thorougly different history to Switzerland, the army is organized differently. The comparison thus doesn't work if you ignore the bigger picture.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	amogles
	Exactly, in Britain soldiers do not typically wear their uniforms while off duty. So when British soldiers catch the train to go home for the weekend, or pop into the pub while waiting for the train, you probably wouldn't recoignize them as such. Neither do they take their rifles and kit with them. The reason soldiers get to take their uniforms, rifles and kit home is that the Swiss army is conceived as a citizen milita. This again has to do with the democratic roots of Swiss society, in which all power ultimately lies in the hand of the people. In Britain, which has a thorougly different history to Switzerland, the army is organized differently. The comparison thus doesn't work if you ignore the bigger picture.

Yeah, something of this sort of reasoning. It is like that with many things. A uniform elsewhere would also imply active hours of duty. A friend in the US drives to work in his hospital uniform, while when I was an ER nurse I couldn't be caught outside of the hospital grounds wearing my even non sterile uniform because I'd be considered on duty and made to follow certain protocols. Has nothing to do with competence but more with expectations of these official protocols that come with changing one's role the min you put the uniform on. And sterile uniform brought naturally different protocol, too.

Soldiers apply professionalism in particular protocol the same way everywhere, me thinks, but not sure. Like in some dictator regimes one basically wears uniforms that represents status (more than protocols, they get slack cut, no?) all the time.

Going back to the UK, the thread and Covid19 crisis, I think British NHS, army and whoever was mobilized will change status, role, protocols, too...and people's expectation. I hope they get paid better, they worked and are working so hard.

Agree with amogles, can't compare a professional army as in the UK, and a mainly conscirpted/volunteer one. Just plain silly.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	Exactly, in Britain soldiers do not typically wear their uniforms while off duty. So when British soldiers catch the train to go home for the weekend, or pop into the pub while waiting for the train, you probably wouldn't recognize them as such. Neither do they take their rifles and kit with them. The reason soldiers get to take their uniforms, rifles and kit home is that the Swiss army is conceived as a citizen milita. This again has to do with the democratic roots of Swiss society, in which all power ultimately lies in the hand of the people. They don't stop being soldiers the moment they step outside the door of the barracks. In Britain, which has a thorougly different history to Switzerland, the army is organized differently. The comparison thus doesn't work if you ignore the bigger picture.

Her only qualification is being the daughter of an ex-Colonel. Supposedly. A man who may not even have known CH exists before his daughter occasionally came here.

She's obviously talking out of her ass.

But thanks for the defence

[curley]

	Quote:	Viclajina
	Well, this thread seems to have gone waaaay off the original question. Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about. Not a representative sample..just one gals opinion. But then again I confess to being an Anglophile and am also influenced by my dad a US Colonel ( retired) who was always hugely complimentary about British soldiers and their capabilities. He wasn’t too impressed with the continental Europeans in that respect and when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

Funny post. Ain't got a clue what you're trying to say and in connection with Brexit.

However, how could the Swiss soldiers impress you? By shooting their way through the (non existing at the moment) crowds on the platform?

	Quote:	Viclajina
	Well, this thread seems to have gone waaaay off the original question. Having worked all over Europe I really don’t think the Brits have too much to worry about. Not a representative sample..just one gals opinion. But then again I confess to being an Anglophile and am also influenced by my dad a US Colonel ( retired) who was always hugely complimentary about British soldiers and their capabilities. He wasn’t too impressed with the continental Europeans in that respect and when I see the Swiss ‘soldiers’ at Zurich main station going home to see mom and dad for the weekend I am inclined to see his point.

Which "gals" [sic] opinion?

Also, eh?

[marton]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	I think "going home to see mom and dad for the weekend" are key words here. This place thankgod hasn't been and isn't in the situation to have the need for personnel to perform like soldiers at war. It is unfair to judge them on the experiences of places that are worse off in that aspect. It is not any lack of professionalism if society makes it so good and cushy for them. I am grateful for that because the society makes it so good for all of us, not just soldiers. Plus know this perceived lack of professionalism really isn't the case in other areas. Just wanted to say that without making any reflections about British soldiers and their capabilities.

They are not "going home to see mom and dad for the weekend", they are either going to attend their compulsory annual refresh course or returning home after that.

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	They are not "going home to see mom and dad for the weekend", they are either going to attend their compulsory annual refresh course or returning home after that.

I understand many army functions do send their guys (and gals) home for the weekend.

After all, the refresher course is exactly that. It's a course. And the instructors want to go home too. The guys (and girls) in uniform doing the course are not the standing army. The standing army is the citizen militia, with everybody having their uniform and rifle in the wardrobe and technically being prepared to take them out and do what it takes when called upon, at any time.

[Axa]

The least the EU and CH could do is reciprocate. The virus stalled the negotiation, quite probably the next deadline will be missed too "We’re ending free movement to open Britain up to the world. It will ensure people can come to our country based on what they have to offer, not where they come from."



https://twitter.com/pritipatel/statu...30422954389504

[marton]

	Quote:	Axa
	The least the EU and CH could do is reciprocate. The virus stalled the negotiation, quite probably the next deadline will be missed too "We’re ending free movement to open Britain up to the world. It will ensure people can come to our country based on what they have to offer, not where they come from."

And in return, we lose our right to live, work, retire in any EU country.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Axa
	The least the EU and CH could do is reciprocate. The virus stalled the negotiation, quite probably the next deadline will be missed too "We’re ending free movement to open Britain up to the world. It will ensure people can come to our country based on what they have to offer, not where they come from."

Do you even understand the concept of a single market and why FMOP is a cornerstone of it and does not standalone? The EU has no intention of allowing any third country to pick apart a fundamental part of their single market.

[Axa]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Do you even understand the concept of a single market and why FMOP is a cornerstone of it and does not standalone? The EU has no intention of allowing any third country to pick apart a fundamental part of their single market.

Do you even understand "don't shoot the messenger"?

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	And in return, we lose our right to live, work, retire in any EU country.

Plenty of Brits went to Spain long before Spain was in the EU or anybody talked about FMOP. A relative of mine moved to Spain in the 1960s.

There are also plenty of people retiring to places like Thailand today.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	amogles
	Plenty of Brits went to Spain long before Spain was in the EU or anybody talked about FMOP. A relative of mine moved to Spain in the 1960s. There are also plenty of people retiring to places like Thailand today.

Not to forget all these EU nationals that cannot freely travel through the EU right now because of closed borders