The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Axa
	Do you even understand "don't shoot the messenger"?

You are not the messenger, you made a direct statement that clearly shows you do not understand how FMOP fits into the Single Market and why it will not be negotiated away.

[Axa]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	You are not the messenger, you made a direct statement that clearly shows you do not understand how FMOP fits into the Single Market and why it will not be negotiated away.

I'd guess I should be thankful for getting a comment about having more insight about me than me

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Do you even understand the concept of a single market and why FMOP is a cornerstone of it and does not standalone? The EU has no intention of allowing any third country to pick apart a fundamental part of their single market.

Which is why we should dump it.

Tom

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	marton
	And in return, we lose our right to live, work, retire in any EU country.

Why would I want to?

Tom

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Why would I want to? Tom

As long as shopping in an EU country is allowed, eh?

[st2lemans]

I used to shop in NYC, but I certainly would never have wanted to live or work there.

Tom

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Why would I want to? Tom

Your prerogative, your choice - but it should remain a choice for others, thanks.

Trouble ahead for sure re WTO - so the concept of being vassals of USA rather than full partners at top table in the EU- looms large

https://youtu.be/li0ei9-hvU0

[YuropFlyer]

	Quote:	amogles
	Plenty of Brits went to Spain long before Spain was in the EU or anybody talked about FMOP. A relative of mine moved to Spain in the 1960s. There are also plenty of people retiring to places like Thailand today.

Where you'll need to show you've got proper funds to be living there, including health insurance (which won't be cheap for 70+ year old pensioneers in Europe!) - in fact they increased those requirements last year if I'm not mistaken

It's quite common for many countries to demand health insurance (private one) when giving visas (and much more for long term resident visas) to travellers, with age often being the discriminator. No (sane) country will welcome old people that will cost them lots (in the health system) but won't be able to pay for it, unless they have to. Which EU countries do. But since the UK isn't anymore, any UK person wanting to retire in Spain will face much stricter (monetary) checks. If you can "just get along" with renting/buying that nice little flat in Southern Alicante, and having some 400€ for food per month on top of it after all costs, you'll most probably NOT cut it anymore if (future) health costs are added into the calculations.

[amogles]

	Quote:	YuropFlyer
	Where you'll need to show you've got proper funds to be living there, including health insurance (which won't be cheap for 70+ year old pensioneers in Europe!) - in fact they increased those requirements last year if I'm not mistaken It's quite common for many countries to demand health insurance (private one) when giving visas (and much more for long term resident visas) to travellers, with age often being the discriminator. No (sane) country will welcome old people that will cost them lots (in the health system) but won't be able to pay for it, unless they have to. Which EU countries do. But since the UK isn't anymore, any UK person wanting to retire in Spain will face much stricter (monetary) checks. If you can "just get along" with renting/buying that nice little flat in Southern Alicante, and having some 400€ for food per month on top of it after all costs, you'll most probably NOT cut it anymore if (future) health costs are added into the calculations.

The thing is that British pensioners make such a huge contribution to the local economies of certain parts of Spain that the Spanish govt would be suicidal if it didn’t pursue some special deal .

Interestingly , lots of pensioners settling there of late are Russian and even Chinese these days . And they manage somehow.

A lot of this is scaremongering in my opinion .

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Which is why we should dump it. Tom

But you are not in it. It’s been very successful as a counter balance to other trade blocks, is the preferred choice of the major of voters and is very likely to grow in strength going forward.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	The thing is that British pensioners make such a huge contribution to the local economies of certain parts of Spain that the Spanish govt would be suicidal if it didn’t pursue some special deal . Interestingly , lots of pensioners settling there of late are Russian and even Chinese these days . And they manage somehow. A lot of this is scaremongering in my opinion .

But as they grow older they will become a drain of health services etc, without the UK government coughing up for it... so we will have to see.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	YuropFlyer
	Where you'll need to show you've got proper funds to be living there, including health insurance (which won't be cheap for 70+ year old pensioneers in Europe!) - in fact they increased those requirements last year if I'm not mistaken It's quite common for many countries to demand health insurance (private one) when giving visas (and much more for long term resident visas) to travellers, with age often being the discriminator. No (sane) country will welcome old people that will cost them lots (in the health system) but won't be able to pay for it, unless they have to. Which EU countries do. But since the UK isn't anymore, any UK person wanting to retire in Spain will face much stricter (monetary) checks. If you can "just get along" with renting/buying that nice little flat in Southern Alicante, and having some 400€ for food per month on top of it after all costs, you'll most probably NOT cut it anymore if (future) health costs are added into the calculations.

EU countries are not stupid. Even now, only the emergency services are for "free" i.e. one doesn't need to show their health insurance. For everything else, if you go to Germany for instance and have to treat other problems there your country will have to pay into the German system whatever they spent on your medical needs. Of course, most British folks still don't know that.

For instance, we can have this EU legislation book case

	Quote:
	Aurélie lives in France. She needs surgery and has chosen a specialist clinic in Luxembourg, where her parents live. She found a specialist at a hospital near her parents' house, but she does not know what the procedure is. Aurélie called the national contact point in France and her health insurance company. She received all the information she needed to apply for prior authorization and filled out the form. If she receives an authorization*, she will be able to make an appointment directly at a hospital in Luxembourg.

*that depends a lot whether her own country can offer these services within a decent time frame, which let's face it - even poorer countries can do, at least in most cases.
One of my cousins' daughter needed a heart surgery and they were put on a long list back home. They didn't want to wait and got the approval to go to Italy. (in Italy, half of the staff were Romanians, so she was operated by a team which was 50% Italian 50% Romanian, and they never needed translators, real life story...)
The costs were supported by the Romanian state. (including the ones for training that medical staff, which is never taken into consideration as a contribution to EU, but hey ho, don't we all like EU )

So uhm, yeah. Not very fond of these type of relations anymore. If EU is willing to reform itself and support other countries too, other than the usual culprits - Italy, Spain, etc I'll see if I still like EU. If not, honesty, they need the "poor" us more than the "poor" us need them. We don't have to stay in an organisation that is constantly overlooking our needs of development. And recognition, I feel like my country is always terribly underrated.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	But you are not in it.

We are definitely in the FMOP nonsense.

Tom

[greenmount]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	We are definitely in the FMOP nonsense. Tom

And freedom of capital and goods nonsense. Why should be a Swiss or Italian farmer be allowed to buy tons of land in my country?

Why my folks can't find Romanian tomatoes in the supermarkets owned by the French etc? And buy Dutch tomatoes or Polish apples when we have our own old local varieties? Have you ever heard of a Romanian apple variety? I bet you didn't. I'm still amazed at the fact that I can never find any Romanian products in the West. You can even find Turkish, Marrocan, Egyptian, American, but not Romanian. It doesn't mean they don't exist.

In Switzerland the supermarkets have to sell Swiss products too. Even the German cheapos. Lidl, Aldi for instance. Had we established this rule over there....tons of people including the nationalistic French will be jumping up in their arms....

Be careful what you wish for. That's all I'm trying to say.....that's all folks, please carry on with the Brexit thread because it angers me. It really does.

[TonyClifton]

Strong letter and statement from UK negotiator David Frost. It basically makes the case that EU demands as they are are not acceptable.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the Coronavirus pandemic has come at a good time for Brexit. Economies and supply chains will have to realign regardless when this is all over, so Brexit economic realignment can form a part of this. The fact that economies have taken such a massive hit from should embolden the UK to be more ambitious in their Brexit approach.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...r_19.05.20.pdf

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/sta...70186277187584

[greenmount]

lol

How does this work?

[marton]

	Quote:	YuropFlyer
	Where you'll need to show you've got proper funds to be living there, including health insurance (which won't be cheap for 70+ year old pensioneers in Europe!) - in fact they increased those requirements last year if I'm not mistaken It's quite common for many countries to demand health insurance (private one) when giving visas (and much more for long term resident visas) to travellers, with age often being the discriminator. No (sane) country will welcome old people that will cost them lots (in the health system) but won't be able to pay for it, unless they have to. Which EU countries do. But since the UK isn't anymore, any UK person wanting to retire in Spain will face much stricter (monetary) checks. If you can "just get along" with renting/buying that nice little flat in Southern Alicante, and having some 400€ for food per month on top of it after all costs, you'll most probably NOT cut it anymore if (future) health costs are added into the calculations.

And will the EU remain on the list of countries where UK pensioners are entitled to receive the annual UK pension increases?

[22 yards]

	Quote:	greenmount
	lol How does this work?

What is that line running through the centre of the frame? Is Chuck shielding himself from coronavirus behind a pipe? Or is he being filmed from behind a half-wound-down car window? Or is his vertical-orientation iPhone camera cracked?

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Strong letter and statement from UK negotiator David Frost. It basically makes the case that EU demands as they are are not acceptable. I'm coming to the conclusion that the Coronavirus pandemic has come at a good time for Brexit. Economies and supply chains will have to realign regardless when this is all over, so Brexit economic realignment can form a part of this. The fact that economies have taken such a massive hit from should embolden the UK to be more ambitious in their Brexit approach.

I agree but then when you say the UK - it was not exactly united before the CV hit the UK, not sure if it is more united now or more exhausted...and if the changes you hold your fingers for will have enough support, in general. I am afraid of that one stupid argument politicians or media will bring to accelerate the process: "it was the EU's fault that the country was hit so hard", because it wasn't, imho, jut a part of it. People took time. So if you think about a rabbit in the headlight reaction towards CV, you can pretty much count on it to any political change now, too. And it is not a good way to bring political progress or process it. It is just my take on it...since there might be other priorites that are pressing now. Rushing Brexit will not make people comply or accept, co-operate, understand. The virus rushed itself in there and people took long to realize it and adjust their behavior. It was like that in quite a few countries, I don't want to pick on yours specifically.

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	And will the EU remain on the list of countries where UK pensioners are entitled to receive the annual UK pension increases?

It is to the advantage of the UK when pensioners move overseas. Many who would be applying for social support because they can't make ends meet in the UK can live quite comfortably in lower cost countries. Not to mention the effects of pensioners moving out freeing pressure on hospitals, the housing market etc etc.

Emmigrating pensioners have a net positive economic effect on both the Uk and on the country they are moving to.

Both sides would be stupid to slam the door on that option, or make it unncessarily complicated.