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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #27461  
Old 20.05.2020, 11:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In Switzerland the supermarkets have to sell Swiss products too. Even the German cheapos. Lidl, Aldi for instance. Had we established this rule over there....tons of people including the nationalistic French will be jumping up in their arms....
Maybe because the Romanian govt sold them short. Maybe they could have made tougher demands and got them.

If you go into a club thinking I am so grateful that I am here and I'm going to do exactly what the others want because the others might kick me out if I don't, you are only inviting the others to abuse you. Romania (and many other countries besides) need to learn to be more assertive and stop selling themselves short.

If the EU is going to be divided into countries who give orders and countries who obey them, that's just one step short of colonialism. It's not anti-Europe to say so.
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  #27462  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Romania (and many other countries besides) need to learn to be more assertive and stop selling themselves short.

If the EU is going to be divided into countries who give orders and countries who obey them, that's just one step short of colonialism. It's not anti-Europe to say so.
I agree. Unfortunately covidiots can vote too.....
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  #27463  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is to the advantage of the UK when pensioners move overseas. Many who would be applying for social support because they can't make ends meet in the UK can live quite comfortably in lower cost countries. Not to mention the effects of pensioners moving out freeing pressure on hospitals, the housing market etc etc.

Emmigrating pensioners have a net positive economic effect on both the Uk and on the country they are moving to.

Both sides would be stupid to slam the door on that option, or make it unncessarily complicated.

Interestingly, the exact same arguments are used for off-shoring in business.
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  #27464  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What is that line running through the centre of the frame? Is Chuck shielding himself from coronavirus behind a pipe? Or is he being filmed from behind a half-wound-down car window? Or is his vertical-orientation iPhone camera cracked?
The left overs of a fence? A tightrope to tie plants to? (tomatoes etc.)?
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  #27465  
Old 20.05.2020, 15:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If the EU is going to be divided into countries who give orders and countries who obey them..
It is already. Or has never stopped, in fact.
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  #27466  
Old 20.05.2020, 17:54
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I agree but then when you say the UK - it was not exactly united before the CV hit the UK, not sure if it is more united now or more exhausted...and if the changes you hold your fingers for will have enough support, in general. I am afraid of that one stupid argument politicians or media will bring to accelerate the process: "it was the EU's fault that the country was hit so hard", because it wasn't, imho, jut a part of it. People took time. So if you think about a rabbit in the headlight reaction towards CV, you can pretty much count on it to any political change now, too. And it is not a good way to bring political progress or process it. It is just my take on it...since there might be other priorites that are pressing now. Rushing Brexit will not make people comply or accept, co-operate, understand. The virus rushed itself in there and people took long to realize it and adjust their behavior. It was like that in quite a few countries, I don't want to pick on yours specifically.

What do you mean? That the UK blames the EU for Covid-19?
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  #27467  
Old 20.05.2020, 18:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The least the EU and CH could do is reciprocate. The virus stalled the negotiation, quite probably the next deadline will be missed too "We’re ending free movement to open Britain up to the world. It will ensure people can come to our country based on what they have to offer, not where they come from."



https://twitter.com/pritipatel/statu...30422954389504

Lots of people from third countries could move to UK and not only, see CH for reference if you need. And not only for super duper ultra-specialised, niche high skilled jobs.....

I don't understand why they conveniently choose to ignore immigration data. And not only from recent years btw.

In this case maybe Pretty Patel should wonder whether she was chosen to be part of this gov because she's a woman and we all need to show we're not sexist etc......as I don't see any merits judging by her declarations, public appearances ....veeeery mediocre, to say the least. Maybe I'm wrong and she's only singing what her bosses want her to.
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  #27468  
Old 20.05.2020, 19:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why my folks can't find Romanian tomatoes in the supermarkets owned by the French etc? And buy Dutch tomatoes or Polish apples when we have our own old local varieties? Have you ever heard of a Romanian apple variety? I bet you didn't. I'm still amazed at the fact that I can never find any Romanian products in the West. You can even find Turkish, Marrocan, Egyptian, American, but not Romanian. It doesn't mean they don't exist.
Just maybe Romania isn't very good at selling its products? Or maybe they're not particularly appealing to Western European tastes? Either way, how is it the EU's fault if the Romanian agricultural import and export markets work like that and appear to be unable to take advantage of the opportunities that are certainly there. Geographically you're no more disadvantaged than any of those countries you quote and better off than most.

Interesting btw, isn't it, that despite the complaints others on here raise about EU protectionism it appears to be perfectly easy to find non-EU goods.

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So uhm, yeah. Not very fond of these type of relations anymore. If EU is willing to reform itself and support other countries too, other than the usual culprits - Italy, Spain, etc I'll see if I still like EU. If not, honesty, they need the "poor" us more than the "poor" us need them. We don't have to stay in an organisation that is constantly overlooking our needs of development. And recognition, I feel like my country is always terribly underrated.
Ummm Italy is actually a net contributor to the EU budget. And Spain receives net €428m compared to Romania €3,035

https://www.statista.com/chart/18794...-to-eu-budget/
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  #27469  
Old 20.05.2020, 20:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just maybe Romania isn't very good at selling its products?
No doubt it's a combination of some factors, but I don't even want that badly that our agricultural products to be sold on the Western market, I would be very happy on the internal one for the beginning....
How can they do it if the retail chains are owned by foreign companies which promote whatever they want. There were some attempts to promote our products but they were criticised and rejected by the EU. Which is funny, considering the French for instance want their products to be promoted etc on the local market. Double standards.
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J Or maybe they're not particularly appealing to Western European tastes?
If you never even tried any, you wouldn't know....but I bet they would.
However, I personally don't think it's a good idea to base our exports on agricultural products, but people want them on the internal market and don't have many options. Local producers are discriminated, their products don't reach the supermarkets' shelves. I hope I addressed a consequent point of yours too.

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Interesting btw, isn't it, that despite the complaints others on here raise about EU protectionism it appears to be perfectly easy to find non-EU goods.
Absolutely. Ironic, no?

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Ummm Italy is actually a net contributor to the EU budget. And Spain receives net €428m compared to Romania €3,035

https://www.statista.com/chart/18794...-to-eu-budget/
Yes, after they benefited from lots and lots of funds along the way - structural, cohesion, regional development, bailouts, you name it, which other countries were denied from the very beginning (that and any sort of Marshall Plan after the fall of communism, that Western Europe has benefited from after the second world war), after there were a lot of investments in these countries, of course they are net contributors.
We want to be that too.

So, maybe it is better out of EU, since this attitude seems to be the norm i.e. "Don't criticise because you receive funds...." the irony. Everyone received funds. I think nobody does us any favour and we'd probably be better off on our own in this case. In the meantime the labour shortage in various fields is chronic, why import people from other places when we can do all of that stuff ourselves. Why people should need to work abroad..

Either way, what I or you believe has no importance. People will vote with parties that don't represent their interests from now on.....as they did before. Indeed, not EU's fault.
Absolutely not EU's fault. Everyone should have a clear conscience and we're back to business.

Last edited by greenmount; 20.05.2020 at 21:55.
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  #27470  
Old 20.05.2020, 20:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No doubt it's a combination of some factors, but I don't even want that badly that our agricultural products to be sold on the Western market, I would be very happy on the internal one for the beginning....
How can they do it if the retail chains are owned by foreign companies which promote whatever they want. There were some attempts to promote our products but they were criticised and rejected by the EU. Which is funny, considering the French for instance want their products to be promoted etc on the local market. Double standards.
What the Romanian retail chains (whatever the ownership) choose to do is nothing much to do with the EU.

I must admit I know relatively little about Romania. However a very good friend is from your neighbour Bulgaria and he talks about how their economy has been transformed by EU membership. They started from a similar base and the same time to you - why have they apparently done so well?
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  #27471  
Old 20.05.2020, 20:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What the Romanian retail chains (whatever the ownership) choose to do is nothing much to do with the EU.

I must admit I know relatively little about Romania. However a very good friend is from your neighbour Bulgaria and he talks about how their economy has been transformed by EU membership. They started from a similar base and the same time to you - why have they apparently done so well?
Awww, depends on who you're talking to. He thinks they're doing well.....OK.

There is a difference of potential between these two countries btw. I think we have higher expectations. I think some Bulgarians have higher expectations too, most probably.

But, as I said, that's neither here nor there. What I and many, many others like me believe, has nada importance. People vote the way the vote and that's it.
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  #27472  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I agree but then when you say the UK - it was not exactly united before the CV hit the UK, not sure if it is more united now or more exhausted...and if the changes you hold your fingers for will have enough support, in general. I am afraid of that one stupid argument politicians or media will bring to accelerate the process: "it was the EU's fault that the country was hit so hard", because it wasn't, imho, jut a part of it. People took time. So if you think about a rabbit in the headlight reaction towards CV, you can pretty much count on it to any political change now, too. And it is not a good way to bring political progress or process it. It is just my take on it...since there might be other priorites that are pressing now. Rushing Brexit will not make people comply or accept, co-operate, understand. The virus rushed itself in there and people took long to realize it and adjust their behavior. It was like that in quite a few countries, I don't want to pick on yours specifically.
I don't think the Coronavirus has anything to do with Brexit, nor do I think the EU is responsible for the Coronavirus outbreak. I strongly doubt whether this point would even be made the UK gutter press, however one never knows.

The economic damage of Coronavirus isn't yet apparent, but it will be soon enough, and it will be many times magnitude that of a no deal Brexit, which is why I think the UK government can afford to be ambitious in their aims. Unfortunately, the Coronavirus crisis has shown them up to be utterly incompetent in a time of crisis which is why I'm not holding my breath!
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  #27473  
Old 21.05.2020, 11:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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No doubt it's a combination of some factors, but I don't even want that badly that our agricultural products to be sold on the Western market, I would be very happy on the internal one for the beginning....
How can they do it if the retail chains are owned by foreign companies which promote whatever they want. There were some attempts to promote our products but they were criticised and rejected by the EU. Which is funny, considering the French for instance want their products to be promoted etc on the local market. Double standards.
I wouldn't put all the blame on the French. Maybe I'm not watching the right news channels but I don't see many pictures of Romanian leaders bringing their fist down on the table in Brussels asking for that Marshall plan. Instead they seem more occupied about making the Germans happy.

If you don't ask you don't get.

And I don't want to single out Romania here (even though I've heard some pretty hairy stories from Romanian friends). It's a EU wide problem. Somehow it's considered bad and against solidarity to look out for your own interests - unless you are France or Germany of course. Solidarity in Europe is a one way street in which the poor have to stand up for the rich. The other countries think, if you are a net receiver of funds you have to be grateful and better not complain about anything. They often fail to recognize or even outright deny the value they are bringing to the table while wildly overstating the value of the others. But that's not how a supposedly egalitarian and democratic community is supposed to work. As long as this type of thinking is not overcome, the problem will just get worse.
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  #27474  
Old 21.05.2020, 11:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wouldn't put all the blame on the French. Maybe I'm not watching the right news channels but I don't see many pictures of Romanian leaders bringing their fist down on the table in Brussels asking for that Marshall plan. Instead they seem more occupied about making the Germans happy.
Nobody does. Nobody puts all the blame on the French (c'mon, we love the French), it was just an example but there are other countries which could have served as an example too. Even if you did speak Romanian (without that I think you can't understand much and don't count on your Spanish because our language is tricky and you'd miss plenty of cultural references/jokes/language subtleties), you wouldn't have where to watch it because nobody blames the French for anything, though maybe they should. Romanians are way smarter than that, they blame themselves or rather, their politicians......but that common agricultural policy (CAP) does favour only some of the EU countries and I'm saying this after having read a lot of EU legislation, not watching indoctrinating news channels (I don't have the time or the will lol), of which no country is short of...including UK. There were proposals to bring about change. Nothing changed, despite my country having had an European commissioner on agriculture.

As for forming your opinions after talking with friends, don't know, they can be very biased too, or maybe they see things very differently than you and me.
Like UK, we're not united on everything.

As for our politicians making the Germans happy, I wouldn't go that far. They're making themselves happy plus are very incompetent, there's a counter-selection up there...
Like in many other countries, but hey ho, this is politics.
It's the same people....same main two parties taking turns (USA style a bit.). Of course things won't change as long as they don't have any pressure and know that whatever they do they'll get into power again and start blaming the other party for every mismanagement etc.

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Solidarity in Europe is a one way street in which the poor have to stand up for the rich. The other countries think, if you are a net receiver of funds you have to be grateful and better not complain about anything. They often fail to recognize or even outright deny the value they are bringing to the table while wildly overstating the value of the others. But that's not how a supposedly egalitarian and democratic community is supposed to work. As long as this type of thinking is not overcome, the problem will just get worse.
Cannot agree more. Thanks.

Btw, I really liked prince Charles' attitude during corona. Hats off.

Sorry for derailing the thread, I didn't know I'd get so many replies. Back to Brexit, promise not to interfere any more.

Last edited by greenmount; 21.05.2020 at 12:49. Reason: typos etc
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  #27475  
Old 25.05.2020, 00:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Boris Johnson has pledged his complete support for Dominic Cummings over a trip to a distant family home during the peak of the lockdown, using a Downing Street press conference to insist his chief adviser “acted responsibly, legally and with integrity”.
Boris adopting Trump's "Mafia chief" protection style of his inner circle.
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  #27476  
Old 27.05.2020, 20:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It is rumoured the UK 'prepares to seek Brexit transition extension' using coronavirus as an excuse. Will this nightmare never end?
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  #27477  
Old 28.05.2020, 12:09
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It is rumoured the UK 'prepares to seek Brexit transition extension' using coronavirus as an excuse. Will this nightmare never end?
I thought the request had been denied? It needs to end. This political dithering is painful.
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  #27478  
Old 28.05.2020, 20:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Not quite what‘s going on is it ?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...Barnier-update
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  #27479  
Old 29.05.2020, 09:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The UK government is looking to open the door to 300,000 Hong Kongese as the situation in Hong Kong deteriorates. Will this put to bed the terrible allegation that Brexit was fueled by racism?
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Old 29.05.2020, 10:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK government is looking to open the door to 300,000 Hong Kongese as the situation in Hong Kong deteriorates. Will this put to bed the terrible allegation that Brexit was fueled by racism?
Subservient foreigners that reminded them of the days of empire... that should be grand! But white, assertive, educated Europeans that challenge them is another matter...

Racism in British politics seems to be pretty well focused...
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