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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #27461  
Old 24.07.2020, 18:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I see Ireland with 1% of EU population will be the 5th highest contributor to the rescue fund. Are the Irish happy with this arrangement?

UK has done well by leaving as it will pay ZERO
It's really an odd one. It was clear that France and Germany were so keen to force a deal. After all, their banks are the most exposed were the Euro to fail, and the Euro would very likely fail if any of the Club Med countries were to go bust. Not to mention they will receive much of the money back in any case one way or another!

The "Frugal Four" arguments were also expected (anyone would think that the Dutch don't like to part with their money ). On a more serious note, it does seem strange that money is willingly sent from North to South in the absence of any evidence that they'll change their ways down there. Once all the money has been spent, which it undoubtedly will, then they'll just be back to square one . As I think I already said, it's a completely unsustainable approach which has just plastered over the cracks. It's no coincidence that an Italexit Political party was launched this week.

Ireland just going along with what Germany and France want is more of a surprise given how badly they've done out of this "deal". I'm sure they'll change tune, no doubt when it's far too late, once the EU really start going after Ireland over her tax laws.

What this has done is shown how the Brexit vote was important and done at the right time. Whilst the EU bailout deal is not the "Hamiltonian Moment" that some have declared, it is without doubt a step in the direction of full Federalism and all without a single vote being cast. A Federal Europe by the back door as I believe Margaret Thatcher once said.
  #27462  
Old 25.07.2020, 02:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm sure they'll change tune, no doubt when it's far too late, once the EU really start going after Ireland over her tax laws.
They already have an opt out and a treaty change would require an Irish referendum...

Once again your basic lack of knowledge on display
  #27463  
Old 25.07.2020, 09:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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They already have an opt out and a treaty change would require an Irish referendum...

Once again your basic lack of knowledge on display
You must have missed the news. The EU are looking to scrap member state vetoes on tax policy. In any case, itís hard to see how much longer national vetoes can survive with the EU moving in the direction which it is!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8729396.html
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  #27464  
Old 25.07.2020, 09:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You must have missed the news. The EU are looking to scrap member state vetoes on tax policy. In any case, itís hard to see how much longer national vetoes can survive with the EU moving in the direction which it is!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8729396.html
A case of thank God for BREXIT.
  #27465  
Old 25.07.2020, 10:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The "Frugal Four" arguments were also expected (anyone would think that the Dutch don't like to part with their money ). On a more serious note, it does seem strange that money is willingly sent from North to South in the absence of any evidence that they'll change their ways down there. Once all the money has been spent, which it undoubtedly will, then they'll just be back to square one . As I think I already said, it's a completely unsustainable approach which has just plastered over the cracks. It's no coincidence that an Italexit Political party was launched this week.
.
I'm with the "frugal" ones here. I can't stand the fact that there are no conditions for the EU money, as a result of negotiations and imposed by certain countries. Instead of finding a way to give those much needed money directly to projects or companies that need investments they're going first to bureaucracy and govs.

But, this is what countries voted for.

And certain parties/persons in Italy would love to be allowed to be as (fiscally, budgetary) indisciplined and for as long as they want, totally ignoring the euro zone rules they signed for being accepted.

While you might be right on this one, choosing to side with parties that actually want exactly what you dislike, it's rather strange. Imagine Ukip and Farage. I really hope this party won't develop the same strategies because this time around EU will be forced to take an official position. And it won't be good for Italy. Italy is not in the insular UK's position. Don't think it's fun to watch EU burning down, since UK is out and all that, it is not. It will be not, this time around.

Last edited by greenmount; 25.07.2020 at 12:12. Reason: typos
  #27466  
Old 25.07.2020, 11:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You must have missed the news. The EU are looking to scrap member state vetoes on tax policy. In any case, itís hard to see how much longer national vetoes can survive with the EU moving in the direction which it is!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8729396.html
It is an idea, not a decision.
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  #27467  
Old 25.07.2020, 11:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is an idea, not a decision.
It's bound to happen, making tax 'fair' by reducing competition, blame it on the lefties.
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  #27468  
Old 25.07.2020, 11:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ireland just going along with what Germany and France want is more of a surprise given how badly they've done out of this "deal". I'm sure they'll change tune, no doubt when it's far too late, once the EU really start going after Ireland over her tax laws.
So far, Eire has unconditional EU support WRT the Good Friday Agreement, that's worth much more than a few billions they might have been able to save by playing tough. Anything even remotely resembling the Troubles is likely to cost manyfold that as every 1% of GDP drop is a loss of $4bln per year, for each year after that drop happened.
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  #27469  
Old 25.07.2020, 12:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's bound to happen, making tax 'fair' by reducing competition, blame it on the lefties.
I'll play a little the devil's advocate role here....

Instead of blaming the lefties, wouldn't be better to analyse the reasons for which it is thought by some that it would be better to have a common fiscal policy?
  #27470  
Old 25.07.2020, 12:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll play a little the devil's advocate role here....

Instead of blaming the lefties, wouldn't be better to analyse the reasons for which it is thought by some to have a common fiscal policy?
Competition is very important as it gives choice, preventing choice is the start of Communism, expect other restrictions to follow.

The majority of people do not 'cover their costs' taxation wise, clearly they want other wealthier people in other countries to pay more on their behalf for their benefit. Clearly that is popular for the majority who pay too little for the services they receive.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 25.07.2020 at 12:42. Reason: spelling
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  #27471  
Old 25.07.2020, 12:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'll play a little the devil's advocate role here....

Instead of blaming the lefties, wouldn't be better to analyse the reasons for which it is thought by some that it would be better to have a common fiscal policy?
If the fiscal policy is fair and well designed, then yes, absolutely. The problem is that member countries have totally different visions on taxation.
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  #27472  
Old 25.07.2020, 12:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If the fiscal policy is fair and well designed, then yes, absolutely. The problem is that member countries have totally different visions on taxation.
Clearly a totally unacceptable policy in CH where every village in every Canton competes on tax & services, then 26 Cantons compete with each other as well.
Choice is a good thing
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  #27473  
Old 25.07.2020, 13:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Clearly a totally unacceptable policy in CH where every village in every Canton competes on tax & services, then 26 Cantons compete with each other as well.
Choice is a good thing
Bulgaria is the country with the lowest income tax rate in the EU. How many people fancy to move there?
  #27474  
Old 25.07.2020, 13:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bulgaria is the country with the lowest income tax rate in the EU. How many people fancy to move there?
I wouldn't discount the retirement westerners will fancy spending there and Hungary, Romania, etc.
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  #27475  
Old 25.07.2020, 13:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Clearly a totally unacceptable policy in CH where every village in every Canton competes on tax & services, then 26 Cantons compete with each other as well.
Choice is a good thing
Yes, competition is good, but only within limits. Once differences are big enough to create a self-reinforcing spiral there's no longer any real competing. And you will usually need balancing mechanisms, there's no reason why Zug and Schwyz should be able to send their students to ZŁrich for free, that would be outright parasitic.
  #27476  
Old 25.07.2020, 13:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bulgaria is the country with the lowest income tax rate in the EU. How many people fancy to move there?
yeah, I can agree some countries seem less attractive from this point of view, but I would keep a low taxation to attract more investments. Bg for instance has a great touristic potential, why not develop this sector and keep the workforce there. It already happened to a certain degree, but you get the idea.
  #27477  
Old 25.07.2020, 13:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes, competition is good, but only within limits. Once differences are big enough to create a self-reinforcing spiral there's no longer any real competing.

what does 'competition' mean actually, in a worldwide system where tariffs apply for imports and exports- and where some countries have very poor workers'r right, salaries, agricultural standards, bio safety and husbandry norms, and complicated international supply chains? Just nonsense.
  #27478  
Old 25.07.2020, 14:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bulgaria is the country with the lowest income tax rate in the EU. How many people fancy to move there?
Whilst it has the lowest headline tax rate it covers world wide income & there is CGT on investments. There does not seem to be a tax free threshold unlike in the UK (£125000) There are plenty of places you could live in Europe & pay less tax, it depends on individual circumstances.
  #27479  
Old 25.07.2020, 15:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bulgaria is the country with the lowest income tax rate in the EU. How many people fancy to move there?
Plenty right now.

Ask the real estate people what the Black Sea coastline is doing.

Right now as I am writing this the EF is even serving me an ad.
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  #27480  
Old 25.07.2020, 17:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Whilst it has the lowest headline tax rate it covers world wide income & there is CGT on investments. There does not seem to be a tax free threshold unlike in the UK (£125000) There are plenty of places you could live in Europe & pay less tax, it depends on individual circumstances.
£125k tax free? Despite the weather and the incompetent politicians, I'm moving to the UK!
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