The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Not sure if borrowing lots of money will solve Italy's or Greece's problems....

Well Boris seems to think it's gong to work.... so it must be OK then.

[JackieH]

Polling still looking good.
Starmer net approval +22, Johnson -8
In seats we lost since 2005: Starmer +13 Johnson +2
Towns Starmer +9 Johnson -6
65+ Starmer +11 Johnson +9
https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/public-opinion-on-coronavirus-23rd-july/



Boris will destroy himself and take us down with him ... and borrow tons of money on the way- massively more than Labour would borrow to rebuild, rather than destroy the country.

[JackieH]

The whole world is watching and know this too.


chttps://www.dw.com/en/opinion-boris-johnson-from-world-king-to-bumbling-failure/a-54312236

[CodPeace]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Polling still looking good. Starmer net approval +22, Johnson -8

Only 4 years to go.
What do they say about a week and politics?

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Not sure if borrowing lots of money will solve Italy's or Greece's problems, ultimately it will lead to default. I believe you mean being part of Eurozone rather than EU membership.

It is difficult to be part of the eurozone without EU membership

I posted cheap money was a benefit, no idea if they will borrow money in the future; probably unlikely if they will get funding from the EU corona virus fund.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	It is difficult to be part of the eurozone without EU membership I posted cheap money was a benefit, no idea if they will borrow money in the future; probably unlikely if they will get funding from the EU corona virus fund.

UK has saved 55 Billion by leaving on 31 January
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/122265...box=1595744499

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The majority of people do not 'cover their costs' taxation wise, clearly they want other wealthier people in other countries to pay more on their behalf for their benefit. Clearly that is popular for the majority who pay too little for the services they receive.

Not sure I follow you. You get the services your country can afford. That's why the differences between various systems. The majority of people don't even think of what richer folks in other countries do. Nobody is after your money, FMF.

Clearly this is a presumptuous comment and it doesn't answer my question but I'll have to dig myself deeper for some decent answers. I'm not sure I agree with a common fiscal policy to be honest so it was a genuine question followed by the usual stuff.

I come from a country with a (very) high level of taxation so yeah, I naturally hate high taxes. If that means even higher taxes, it's not good for folks back home.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Not sure I follow you. You get the services your country can afford. That's why the differences between various systems. The majority of people don't even think of what richer folks in other countries do. Nobody is after your money, FMF. Clearly this is a presumptuous comment and it doesn't answer my question.

It's not what the country can afford, as most governments are borrowing a huge amount of money & increasing their debt year after year. This is not good in any way shape or form, they have not repaid the debt from the Banking Crisis in 2008. My definition of affordability is you can pay for something, not cover the interest only when interest rates are at a 300 year low.

It really should be illegal for a government to increase debt for more than 3 years falling a major shock, if only they were sacked & not eligible to ever occupy a government post after such reckless behaviour.

Taxation was introduced as a temporary measure in the UK in 1799 to pay for the Napoleonic wars, it's been a theme ever since.

[JackieH]

Who is borrowing tons of money now in the UK? Not labour for a fact.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Who is borrowing tons of money now in the UK? Not labour for a fact.

If Labour's election pledges were to be fulfilled then borrowing would be considerably higher. I don't believe in any subsidies of any kind, the Banks should have failed in 2008. You have to fail if you make bad decisions, thats life, however bankers got bonus's from banks who were not making a profit, rescued with tax payers money. Even the Tories are very socialist.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK has saved 55 Billion by leaving on 31 January https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/122265...box=1595744499

No doubt Boris will give it to the NHS, as usual.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK has saved 55 Billion by leaving on 31 January https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/122265...box=1595744499

	Quote:	marton
	No doubt Boris will give it to the NHS, as usual.

55 billion? That's just enough to keep the NHS funded for three years! What will the Tories do for the last year of government before the next election?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	What will the Tories do for the last year of government before the next election?

Enough to get the Tories elected again, no need to waste money

[JackieH]

Are you a Russian bot, as said above?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	55 billion? That's just enough to keep the NHS funded for three years! What will the Tories do for the last year of government before the next election?

Like all parties with big majorities, they will have fallen apart before then. Big majorities means you end up with a lot of loopers that think the have a mandate to go off on all kinds of tangents.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Like all parties with big majorities, they will have fallen apart before then. Big majorities means you end up with a lot of loopers that think the have a mandate to go off on all kinds of tangents.

And just when I had finished writing it, what do I find:

Over-40s in UK to pay more tax under plans to fix social care crisis

	Quote:
	Under the plan over-40s would have to pay more in tax or national insurance, or be compelled to insure themselves against hefty bills for care when they are older. The money raised would then be used to pay for the help that frail elderly people need with washing, dressing and other activities if still at home, or to cover their stay in a care home.

Wonder who voted for that gem.....

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's not what the country can afford, as most governments are borrowing a huge amount of money & increasing their debt year after year. This is not good in any way shape or form, they have not repaid the debt from the Banking Crisis in 2008. My definition of affordability is you can pay for something, not cover the interest only when interest rates are at a 300 year low. It really should be illegal for a government to increase debt for more than 3 years falling a major shock, if only they were sacked & not eligible to ever occupy a government post after such reckless behaviour. Taxation was introduced as a temporary measure in the UK in 1799 to pay for the Napoleonic wars, it's been a theme ever since.

Take a look at who's borrowing more in the EU...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...c-product-gdp/

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Take a look at who's borrowing more in the EU... https://www.statista.com/statistics/...c-product-gdp/

Ireland was the only one the PIGS in which austerity really worked - from 124% down to 68%. But then it was also the only one in which politicians, senior civil servants and the judiciary started returning money to the state - it did not make much difference in financial terms but it was a very powerful message to the public that they were in deep you know what.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	JackieH
	what does 'competition' mean actually, in a worldwide system where tariffs apply for imports and exports- and where some countries have very poor workers'r right, salaries, agricultural standards, bio safety and husbandry norms, and complicated international supply chains? Just nonsense.

You need mobility in order to have competition. Goods compete internationally to the extent that they can be ex/importet. Workers analogously.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And just when I had finished writing it, what do I find: Over-40s in UK to pay more tax under plans to fix social care crisis Wonder who voted for that gem.....

The social care crisis is a problem that is not unique to the UK. The whole western world has a demographic bombshell to deal with and very few leaders seem willing to have the conversations that are needed. Thanks to the erosion of the nuclear family, people unwilling or unable to plan for their futures and the sheer cost of social care we've landed at the situation we find ourselves today.

If people aren't willing to look after their family memebers, nor unwilling to save for their own futures then this tax is the only alternative.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Not sure if borrowing lots of money will solve Italy's or Greece's problems, ultimately it will lead to default. I believe you mean being part of Eurozone rather than EU membership.

The problem was many club med countries borrowed money cheaply to build massive infrastructure projects that were unneeded with contracts awarded to French and German companies. See how it works yet? The money always gets back there somehow (minus the commission of course )!