The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So why did British voters continue to elect government after government that committed the country to the EU concept then????

They elected the government who offered a referendum & re elected the same party to get the Job 1, not once but twice. If you think about it 4 referendums on BREXIT

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	So are you speaking for Jim ? Or are you speaking for yourself ?

Agreeing with someone is not speaking for someone.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	It took for 40 years for British voters to figure out what they wanted.... Boris has a long future in that case... Oh and as for the promises etc... they came from your own government, they were responsible for ratify the changes and no one forced them to do so.

This. Exactly. I don't think it's helpful to blame the EU when local politicians are much more responsible in my opinion.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Agreeing with someone is not speaking for someone.

	Quote:	greenmount
	In general people tell you what they think you want to hear...it's human nature.

Getting very confusing now, what you mean

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Agreeing with someone is not speaking for someone.

If you agree with them then why accuse me of contradicting you rather than them?

If It is your opinion you need to be able to stand up for it regardless of whether somebody else happens to agree .

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	amogles
	If you agree with them then why accuse me of contradicting you rather than them? If It is your opinion you need to be able to stand up for it regardless of whether somebody else happens to agree .

Clearly people are spineless, it's human nature apparently

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Clearly people are spineless, it's human nature apparently

Are you referring to you now?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Are you referring to you now?

Nope

Generally people who say what they believe the other want them to say rather than what they think are spineless. It would be terrible if friendships & relationships were built of a web of deceit, it's as if the person needs to pretend they are someone they are not so as to be liked.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Nope Generally people who say what they believe the other want them to say rather than what they think are spineless.

Context is everything. People might avoid contradictory discussions for different reasons.

If you, for instance, as a local politician say one thing to your constituents and a totally different thing in the EU Parliament...then yes, you're spineless.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It would be terrible if friendships & relationships were built of a web of deceit, it's as if the person needs to pretend they are someone they are not so as to be liked.

Absolutely agree with that. But never underestimate people's desire to find common grounds and avoid potentially heated discussions which might destroy a relationship. (or not, it's about perceptions here)

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Context is everything. People might avoid contradictory discussions for different reasons.

Ulterior motive is key, it's dishonest & lacks integrity regardless of reason.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Oh and as for the promises etc... they came from your own government, they were responsible for ratify the changes and no one forced them to do so.

This really isn't true although it is the illusion EU wants and needs to keep. Lot of things were forced upon new members: backfiring quotas, agro cartels, health limits (they watered down a lot of previously strict and functioning stuff), health risk assessment got bought in kits instead of locals having their own labs, edu compatibility (watered down standards again to teach merely for exams or PISA testing), etc. Ton got imposed "in the name of versatility and interchangeability" as is the frequent case when foreign standards are imposed. The lower standards actually lowered the quality of life there. It will be hard to recover this, if ever possible. EU means globalization, simple as that. Thankgod that people started questioning who benefits from it. I am not saying that local gov is/was stelar at all, either. But the way Covid wasn't organized, for example, but local measures still criticised by EU leadership instead, will not warm up Eurosceptics at all. I may criticise a lot, but everyone I know had to deal with negative consequences.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Context is everything. People might avoid contradictory discussions for different reasons. If you, for instance, as a local politician say one thing to your constituents and a totally different thing in the EU Parliament...then yes, you're spineless. Absolutely agree with that. But never underestimate people's desire to find common grounds and avoid potentially heated discussions which might destroy a relationship. (or not, it's about perceptions here)

We are no longer in communism where people couldn't speak up. Say whatever as long as it is polite and in a good faith.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Ulterior motive is key, it's dishonest & lacks integrity regardless of reason.

I think many (polite) people tend to avoid contradictory discussions, at least to a certain extent, on subjects that are highly controversial and/or have the potential to ruin a friendship. I might be wrong, of course.

We live in a polarised world, don't you know?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	This really isn't true although it is the illusion EU wants and needs to keep..

It most certainly is true. Go read the treaty on how ratification is to occur.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think many (polite) people tend to avoid contradictory discussions, at least to a certain extent, on subjects that are highly controversial and have the potential to ruin a friendship. I might be wrong, of course. We live in a polarised wold, don't you know?

Over polite people are indeed spineless & lack integrity, why would you want such a person as a friend? If you just say yes I agree with whatever the person says, why would they want you as a friend? it's going to be very boring & pointless to even talk to them.
Having said that I do occasionally say 'yes dear' to my wife

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Over polite people are indeed spineless & lack integrity, why would you want such a person as a friend? If you just say yes I agree with whatever the person says, why would they want you as a friend? it's going to be very boring & pointless to even talk to them. Having said that I do occasionally say 'yes dear' to my wife

Yes. But no. You can be polite and still disagree and still have great friends with different ideas to yours. In fact, I want friends with as many different ideas to mine as possible. Life is easier if one doesn't get hurt by people disagreeing with them but looks for that challenge in order to learn and grow and understand others. I know this comes out hellishly kitch.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Over polite people are indeed spineless & lack integrity, why would you want such a person as a friend? If you just say yes I agree with whatever the person says, why would they want you as a friend? it's going to be very boring & pointless to even talk to them. Having said that I do occasionally say 'yes dear' to my wife

It would be sad, indeed, if someone would say yes to whatever you say. However, I thought it was clear from the context that we're talking about those specific situations that involve emotionally loaded discussions. Usually, politics. EU. Trump. What you have these days.

It's not about a "web of lies and pretending", who would want such a thing.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Having said that I do occasionally say 'yes dear' to my wife

Haha, see?

[curley]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Over polite people are indeed spineless & lack integrity, why would you want such a person as a friend? If you just say yes I agree with whatever the person says, why would they want you as a friend? it's going to be very boring & pointless to even talk to them. Having said that I do occasionally say 'yes dear' to my wife

This.

As to the "yes dear", I'm sure your wife knows exactly what it means.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	curley
	This. As to the "yes dear", I'm sure your wife knows exactly what it means.

I didn't exactly disagree with FMF on that post.

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	It most certainly is true. Go read the treaty on how ratification is to occur.

The biggest problem in the UK was that politicians kept claiming "The EU forced this on us" when in fact they themselves had formally accepted the changes.
Urban myths and all that....

[greenmount]

	Quote:	marton
	The biggest problem in the UK was that politicians kept claiming "The EU forced this on us" when in fact they themselves had formally accepted the changes. Urban myths and all that....

Not only in the UK, c'mon.

They have one discourse at home and a slightly different one there - in Bruxelles.


But somehow the simpletons lack integrity because they don't want to ruin life long friendships for these manipulative morons.