The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Phos]

	Quote:	Pashosh
	The conservative leader was against Brexit and quit. The Labour leader didn't quit - Is he for or against Brexit ?

Seems politics in the UK is headed for a major realignment. Corbyn said something to the point that he has finally understood the voters. Labor may actually start representing people who want to work, and may even start thinking conservatively. Conservatives really need to tack towards the same. Both parties need to reaffirm their commitment to their country. If they coalesce around UK national interests, the UK has a better chance of winning through. If they continually negate each other, it will only weaken the UK.

All in all, there is a major drift towards nationalism in places. This does not need to be a negative. It could be very healthy. The EU can choose to pay attention and acknowledge it, or they may very well deny it, and be shattered due to their own rigidity.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	You can however speculate on the trend. But remember it's France, we change fashion trend twice a year so in politics...

True, but isn't this whole thread about speculating. None of us knows for sure what will happen, and things change all the time?

	Quote:	Faltrad
	It's not what it says in the newspaper. http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Polit...Frexit-1003309 You can however speculate on the trend. But remember it's France, we change fashion trend twice a year so in politics...

Yes, that article would contradict what I've heard. Let's see how things develop.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Phos
	Seems politics in the UK is headed for a major realignment. Corbyn said something to the point that he has finally understood the voters. Labor may actually start representing people who want to work, and may even start thinking conservatively. Conservatives really need to tack towards the same. Both parties need to reaffirm their commitment to their country. If they coalesce around UK national interests, the UK has a better chance of winning through. If they continually negate each other, it will only weaken the UK. All in all, there is a major drift towards nationalism in places. This does not need to be a negative. It could be very healthy. The EU can choose to pay attention and acknowledge it, or they may very well deny it, and be shattered due to their own rigidity.

The Labour Party has historically always done best when it was trying to serve the people as well as possible rather than trying to win elections at all costs. In that respect, Corbyn is actually a true Labour man and I can fully understand why so many people backed him. The problem with him is that he is out of touch and seems to live in a bubble of student union debates rather than the real Britain.

[ZuriRollt]

Found this funny - while the rest of Europe has been planning the scenarios since months, here the BBC summary:

After a weekend of playing cricket and planning his Tory leadership bid, Boris Johnson emerged briefly for the cameras on Monday morning.

He wanted to dispel "confusion" about the rights of European migrants living here already, but he has still to offer anything like a concrete plan on how he would negotiate the post-Brexit future.

So, for now the questions: When do we leave the EU and on what terms? Who will do the negotiations? What will it mean for immigration, for trade, for travel, for the city, for agriculture, for those from the EU living here and Brits abroad? All have no answers - and none in prospect either.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	I read the House of Parliament could forbid the Prime Minister to actuate clause 50. That would be an upset, and the MPs could then discuss whether to go ahead or not, with clause 50 in October.

Legal opinion is that an Act of Parliament will be required, before article 50,

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/britain-ca...140423176.html

[mirfield]

	Quote:	ZuriRollt
	Found this funny - while the rest of Europe has been planning the scenarios since months, here the BBC summary: After a weekend of playing cricket and planning his Tory leadership bid, Boris Johnson emerged briefly for the cameras on Monday morning. He wanted to dispel "confusion" about the rights of European migrants living here already, but he has still to offer anything like a concrete plan on how he would negotiate the post-Brexit future. So, for now the questions: When do we leave the EU and on what terms? Who will do the negotiations? What will it mean for immigration, for trade, for travel, for the city, for agriculture, for those from the EU living here and Brits abroad? All have no answers - and none in prospect either.

Boris's body language strikes me as somebody who never expected to win. Or particularly wanted it; put up a good show, lose gracefully (he managed a plucky close second in an unwinnable race after all), make friends with Dave again and take over the party in a couple of years, ready for the next election.

Now he has to see how he can avoid the poison chalice of pressing or not pressing the A50 button.

Plans, mice, men, 'n' all that.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	ZuriRollt
	Found this funny - while the rest of Europe has been planning the scenarios since months, here the BBC summary: After a weekend of playing cricket and planning his Tory leadership bid, Boris Johnson emerged briefly for the cameras on Monday morning. He wanted to dispel "confusion" about the rights of European migrants living here already, but he has still to offer anything like a concrete plan on how he would negotiate the post-Brexit future. So, for now the questions: When do we leave the EU and on what terms? Who will do the negotiations? What will it mean for immigration, for trade, for travel, for the city, for agriculture, for those from the EU living here and Brits abroad? All have no answers - and none in prospect either.

Zuri,


Boris, like Corbyn, is at the moment just a guy who happens to work in that building on the sauce bottle. Corbyn can't take any action on behalf of the country as he is the opposition. Boris can't do anything until he becomes the leader. What would you like to do, send the MP who was sworn in this morning over to Brussels to make everything right by Thursday morning? Would you be happy if she came back wavng an iPad and said "Peace in our times"?


Yes, I know the markets are bleeding money, but as Blair pointed out in an interview on the morning after "Well, to be fair, we did warn that a Brexit vote would have financial consequences"


(I'm not sure if he said "I" or "we", nor if he said "financial", but that was the gist of what he said - haven't managed to find that clip again)

[Sbrinz]

Blair said he expected turmoil in the financial markets to continue and said the next steps had to be taken 'with a sense of unity across the political spectrum'.
Mr Blair said Leave campaigners had dismissed warnings of the danger of Brexit as 'scaremongering'.
'I think you can see from the reactions already, those threats are real,' he said, warning that 'the reality of the choice we've made is going to sink into the public consciousness in a big way in the days and weeks to come'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4Co2gL38o
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[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	mirfield
	Boris's body language strikes me as somebody who never expected to win. Or particularly wanted it; put up a good show, lose gracefully (he managed a plucky close second in an unwinnable race after all), make friends with Dave again and take over the party in a couple of years, ready for the next election. Now he has to see how he can avoid the poison chalice of pressing or not pressing the A50 button. Plans, mice, men, 'n' all that.

He wanted to win and he wants to be the next PM. Clever man who always had DC in his pocket.

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	PAY ATTENTION. This is what the Martin Schulz, President of the European Parliament said today: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate" Is there anymore evidence needed that the EU is undemocratic? Democracy has no place in the EU.

No news for anybody who has paid a bit of attention.
Unfortunately, he (and Mr Juncker) stand firm on their conviction that the solution to all EU problems is "more EU" and less national states.
Above mind-set - widely shared in EU circles - is also one of the reasons why you will never get a Swiss public vote to join that club. At least not in the next couple of decades.

Those two fine gentleman alone probably boosted the "Leave"-campaign one or two percent-points. The fact that they are in complete denial about this speaks volumes.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate"

And YOU pay attention to this one where the same guy says "It is the sovereign expression of the will of the people to leave the Union".
http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...-Dienstag.html

Now come with your link showing the man saying the sentence you quote. If you can, we'll get the context, and if you can't, it's a lie. Maybe you're right, but you have to prove it.

[Kosti]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	PAY ATTENTION. This is what the Martin Schulz, President of the European Parliament said today: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate" Is there anymore evidence needed that the EU is undemocratic? Democracy has no place in the EU.

Utter nonsense.

I googled this and the only places it shows up on is conspiracy BS sites like zerohedge.

Its a tragedy that an event that changes the path of the UK is decided based on rumors and nonsense such as this. Democracy deserves informed debate.

Edit: On a bit of digging the "source" seems to be a twitter post in Italian with the words pasted alongside an older photo of Schulz
https://twitter.com/gzibordi/status/747242697119891457

Pathetic

[Sbrinz]

You live in a highly democratic country, and you can see after every Swiss referendum that almost nothing is changed by the voting.

Why should the EU become democratic? What is the advantage? You can see now that the UK has made a democratic decision which is catastrophic, and the UK will now suffer the consequences. All the professionals said don't leave!

The leave campaign chose to ignore these difficulties, and they will be difficult to correct, and all because the Brexit leadership never planned for anything in the future after 24.06.2016.

Remember the Pied Piper of Hamelin? (Known in German as the rat catcher of Hamelin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

[Kosti]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	You live in a highly democratic country, and you can see after every Swiss referendum that almost nothing is changed by the voting. Why should the EU become democratic? What is the advantage? You can see now that the UK has made a democratic decision which is catastrophic, and the UK will now suffer the consequences. The leave campaign chose to ignore these difficulties, and they will be difficult to correct, and all because the Brexit leadership never planned for anything in the future after 24.06.2016. Heard about the Pied Piper of Hamelin? (Known in German as the rat catcher of Hamelin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

Things do change in Switzerland as a consequence of voting.

The Brexit referendum must be implemented, despite what it will bring.

In times like this, adhering to democracy is even more important.
Otherwise, that way lies Farage and worse.

Worth a read
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...pened-20160627

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	You live in a highly democratic country, and you can see after every Swiss referendum that almost nothing is changed by the voting. Why should the EU become democratic? What is the advantage? You can see now that the UK has made a democratic decision which is catastrophic, and the UK will now suffer the consequences. All the professionals said don't leave! The leave campaign chose to ignore these difficulties, and they will be difficult to correct, and all because the Brexit leadership never planned for anything in the future after 24.06.2016. Heard about the Pied Piper of Hamelin? (Known in German as the rat catcher of Hamelin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

Almost nailed it Sbrinz...


"The leave campain AND 1.9001% of the people who voted, who ought to have known better"

[ZuriRollt]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Zuri, Would you be happy if she came back waving an iPad and said "Peace in our times"? ... (I'm not sure if he said "I" or "we", nor if he said "financial", but that was the gist of what he said - haven't managed to find that clip again)

I just like the fact that you said "she" .

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	ZuriRollt
	I just like the fact that you said "she" .

Umn... the MP that was sworn in this morning was a woman, right?

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	You live in a highly democratic country, and you can see after every Swiss referendum that almost nothing is changed by the voting. Why should the EU become democratic? What is the advantage? You can see now that the UK has made a democratic decision which is catastrophic, and the UK will now suffer the consequences. All the professionals said don't leave! The leave campaign chose to ignore these difficulties, and they will be difficult to correct, and all because the Brexit leadership never planned for anything in the future after 24.06.2016. Remember the Pied Piper of Hamelin? (Known in German as the rat catcher of Hamelin) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

The problem is that most other countries keep their electorate stupid and want to continue to do so. It's much easier to push your political agenda on a public that is more interested in large sports-events and various dinky song- and beauty contests than the advancement of society - the 21st century version of panem et circensis, really.
The Brexit-vote is a good example: who in his right mind would set a date for such an important vote right in the middle of the UEFA Euro 2016?
In the homeland of soccer!

Swiss people have demonstrated to be able to make balanced decisions at the ballot (most of the time).
The EU elite (represented by the fine two gentlemen above) wants to have less discussions with people who don't share their opinion. Voters are only good as long as they vote for them or their ideas. Else they're a nuisance.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	rainer_d
	The EU elite (represented by the fine two gentlemen above) wants to have less discussions with people who don't share their opinion. Voters are only good as long as they vote for them or their ideas. Else they're a nuisance.

Umm, wait a second, I thought that part of the discontent that led to Brexit was precisely the fact that the British DIDN'T get to vote for them.

[Phos]

True colours coming out. I get the sense we are about to see the wizard, and may be shocked by what we see.

This is no time for the UK to come out conciliatory and weak. Its too late for that now. I don't see anyway for Cameron come out on Tuesday other than with his game face, strong and swinging. The UK needs to be united now more than ever. If it doesn't, it is likely to get cluster-fckd. He is going to have to show some spine.