The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	So huge that of the richest four European countries, three - Switzerland (1st), Norway (2nd), and Iceland (4th) are non-EU.

Norway because of oil and Iceland directly or indirectly because of other forms of energy. Both rather special cases.

Switzerland has some....interesting....special reasons for its wealth.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Do you have any idea whatsoever of whom you speak here? .

Of course she doesn’t.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	So huge that of the richest four European countries, three - Switzerland (1st), Norway (2nd), and Iceland (4th) are non-EU.

But none of them are stupid enough to trade on WTO terms with the world. Three are members of the EEA, which mean they participate in the single market and the fourth has a bilateral set of agreements. And of course all four are members of EFTA.

Lacking such basic information at this stage is amusing...

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	So huge that of the richest four European countries, three - Switzerland (1st), Norway (2nd), and Iceland (4th) are non-EU.

Wonderful news for the UK! Perhaps she can aspire to an economy the size of Iceland's!

But of course, there are many ways to look at the strength of an economy, even to look at GDP. In the eyes of many economists, GDP at Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) per capita is a sensible basis for comparison of countries as it takes relative cost of living into account. Here's the table ranking the world's countries on this basis (sorry, figures for 2017 only).

The highest ranked European country (after tiny Luxembourg), at no. 7, is Ireland--the country most similar to the UK culturally and perhaps economically. It's followed by Switzerland, (San Marino), Norway and Iceland.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:
	The highest ranked European country (after tiny Luxembourg), at no. 7, is Ireland--the country most similar to the UK culturally and perhaps economically. It's followed by Switzerland, (San Marino), Norway and Iceland.

I would not agree with that at all. I'd say the started out in very much the same situation in 1973, but their paths after that are very different.


I remember the build up to 1973 very well and it was seen in Ireland as the biggest opportunity that had come along in the history and by God were we going to take full advantage of it! There was a massive program to support industry, educate farmer etc.... and the attitude was that if you were not preparing for this, there was something wrong with you!


Even politically, decisions on the country's position in terms of the EU is reserved to the people. The government can only negotiate, no more, after that it's up to the people - they have ownership of the decision. Unlike the UK, no one can argue that they did not vote for this or that, they voted on every single treaty change - the result might not have gone their way... but still.


It's also very difficult to find a household in Ireland where at least a few of the people have not lived and worked abroad, which is unusual. So the attitude of working with foreigners, doing business abroad etc... is very different.


So I'd say yes language is similar, law very much so - there is usually only a timing difference between the two jurisdictions. After that I'd say not so much.


In general though I'd say the EU favors small nations. In a small nation, for companies to grow exporting is a necessity not just an option as say for small companies in the UK. And the single market gives them a very big market on the same terms as their current market, if they take advantage of it.

[Dinivan]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	So huge that of the richest four European countries, three - Switzerland (1st), Norway (2nd), and Iceland (4th) are non-EU.

One thing that the Swiss don't talk much about is the relative decadence of the Swiss economy compared to comparable EU economies.

Switzerland is rich because it departed from a very good position since the 19th century and later on with both WWs. But similar countries have been catching up on Switzerland, e.g. Austria, the Netherlands, or Denmark, whilst others have benefitted massively from the EU economy - Ireland and Luxembourg.

Here's some graphs I just plotted:
GDP per capita


Average GDP per capita of selected countries (unweighed, I was too lazy) / CH GDP per capita

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Know I saw something about it somewhere here on EF, but can't find it. Just had notification from Barclays of changes to their T&C and it seems that if you're not legally resident in the UK they can close your bank account.

"Closing your account: We're updated Section 5 of Being with Barclays (Stopping your service or account) to explain that we can close your account if you (or someone you hold an account with) are resident outside the UK."

From the terms themselves:

"When we can close an account or end a service
We can close an account (and stop providing any services and end this agreement) by giving you at least two months’ notice. Any benefit or services linked to your account will stop at the same time. However, if you have a Barclays Basic Current Account, we can only do this if:

• you have access to another payment account in the UK with basic features
• you’re no longer legally resident in the UK, or
• there haven’t been any transactions on your account for more than 24 months.

If you’re a Barclays Basic Current Account customer, we’ll tell you why we’re ending the agreement unless doing so would be unlawful."

The changes come into effect on 12th April 2021.

First thing they need to do is define what they consider to be "legally resident".

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	First thing they need to do is define what they consider to be "legally resident".

Based on the Statutory definition of UK residence.

They had a legal requirement to give any EU residents a basic bank account, they no longer have that requirement, so will wish to close accounts that cost the Bank to operate & which have little chance of ever being profitable.

[marton]

@Medea Fleecestealer

No doubt all those British ex-pats living in Spain (who it is rumoured mostly voted for Brexit) are enjoying the various changes coming down the track.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	@Medea Fleecestealer No doubt all those British ex-pats living in Spain (who it is rumoured mostly voted for Brexit) are enjoying the various changes coming down the track.

The ones who were legally residing won't see much difference, it's that some of ones that were still paying UK tax will have a shock how much more tax they are liable to pay. Housing is cheap for a reason.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Based on the Statutory definition of UK residence. They had a legal requirement to give any EU residents a basic bank account, they no longer have that requirement, so will wish to close accounts that cost the Bank to operate & which have little chance of ever being profitable.

Well, considering I send money to my account every month they're not losing anything by me. And my UK pension goes into my other UK account. Not heard from that bank yet.

We own a house in the UK and also filled in UK tax returns until HMRC told us we didn't need to any more unless our circumstances changed. So what does that make us?

[marton]

They are still kicking this can down the road

	Quote:
	Boris Johnson has lowered his Brexit demands on Brussels by asking for up to 60% of catches back from EU fishing fleets but the gap between the negotiators remains wide. In briefings to EU ambassadors and MEPs in Brussels, the bloc’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier said Downing Street had revised its demand down from 80%. The EU has so far offered the repatriation of 15%-18% of fishing catches.

[marton]

Boris flying to Brussels today, no doubt with a suitcase full of giveaways.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Well, considering I send money to my account every month they're not losing anything by me. And my UK pension goes into my other UK account. Not heard from that bank yet. We own a house in the UK and also filled in UK tax returns until HMRC told us we didn't need to any more unless our circumstances changed. So what does that make us?

I don't know your circumstances so can't possibly know for sure. Having a accommodation available is just 1 connection assuming you even need to count connections.

You need to look at the Statutory definition of UK residence & work it out for yourself. Tip, if in full time employment abroad, work less than 30 days in the UK & spend less than 90 nights in the UK at midnight you are non resident.

[John William]

Here's some useful information for British Expats residing abroad on the Continent on
the latest situation regarding retaining their present British bank account or credit
cards.

The latest from the major providers:
Barclays is closing accounts for customers in Belgium, Estonia, Italy and Slovakia who don’t have a
UK address.
Barclaycard customers in all European Economic Area (EEA) countries will have their cards
cancelled if they haven’t linked their accounts to a UK address.

Danske Bank customers in the EU will all see their bank accounts closed – with the exception of those
in Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden.

Lloyds Banking Group, including Bank of Scotland, Halifax and Lloyds Bank, has confirmed it is closing
accounts for customers based in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Republic of Ireland and
Slovenia.

Nationwide is closing accounts in the Netherlands and Italy.

Santander isn’t closing accounts at this time, but non-UK residents can no longer open accounts with
the bank, and existing customers won’t be granted new requests for new or increased overdraft
limits, credit card limits or additional cardholders.

The Co-operative Bank is closing accounts in the Netherlands.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	marton
	@Medea Fleecestealer No doubt all those British ex-pats living in Spain (who it is rumoured mostly voted for Brexit) are enjoying the various changes coming down the track.

If they live in Spain then they couldn't vote.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Dinivan
	One thing that the Swiss don't talk much about is the relative decadence of the Swiss economy compared to comparable EU economies. Switzerland is rich because it departed from a very good position since the 19th century and later on with both WWs. But similar countries have been catching up on Switzerland, e.g. Austria, the Netherlands, or Denmark, whilst others have benefitted massively from the EU economy - Ireland and Luxembourg.

GDP per capita is not an appropriate way to measure the wealth of either of those countries.

Its also worth remembering that you may get a decent salary in NL or DK - but take home pay compared to Switzerland will be miles lower due to taxation. In my line of work probably 50% of what youd get here. (Incidentally Irish and UK salaries are very similar in my field - again in IE you'd be lucky to get 50% of what you get here as a take home salary).

[Talk to you later]

What are the chances of Pound ever returning to CHF 2+ levels in next 10 years?

[JackieH]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	If they live in Spain then they couldn't vote.

of course they could, as long as they had not been out of country for more than 15 years.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	of course they could, as long as they had not been out of country for more than 15 years.

That is correct - my apologies. I incorrectly thought it was just GE we expats could vote in.