The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[bowlie]

	Quote:	JackieH
	If any of them say once more 'we will have an Australian style Deal'

Why do you think Boris was served Pavlova for dessert? (and fish for mains)

[Troublawesome]

Australian sounds better than Afghanistan deal which is really what it is, no deal at all. Australia has some minor deals already with the EU around wines and looking for a free trade deal for the past 2 years.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	Australian sounds better than Afghanistan deal which is really what it is, no deal at all. Australia has some minor deals already with the EU around wines and looking for a free trade deal for the past 2 years.

The UK can hardly do a trade deal while the EU is effectively trying to take the UK's waters, and looking to control competition standards. How would they act if we asked if UK judges could pass judgement on what the French and German state decides to do. Or decided we'd be helping ourselves to Danish or Dutch waters.

No doubt I will get groaned for saying it but that's what is being offered is not a deal, its vassal status. I really hope it won't happen unless there's a retreat from that position from the EU.

Ultimately its going to be pretty disruptive to the UK but there are some things you can't compromise on.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	The UK can hardly do a trade deal while the EU is effectively trying to take the UK's waters, and looking to control competition standards. How would they act if we asked if UK judges could pass judgement on what the French and German state decides. Or decided we'd be helping ourselves to Danish or Dutch waters. No doubt I will get groaned for saying it but that's what is being offered is not a deal, its vassal status. I really hope it won't happen unless there's a retreat from that position.

This is the point, what the EU is proposing is something that no government could ever agree to. Almost beyond belief that they requested in the event of no deal that they still get access to UK waters for six months!

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Because the GFA does not give you travel rights. It in directly recognized that most people born on the island is an Irish citizen by birth, so no EU restrictions. Even the DUP advise people to apply for an Irish passport and their MPs have no problem signing passport applications. Indeed most have admitted they have an Irish passport tucked away in the wardrobe for such an occasion. During lockdown, all county borders throughout the country are patrolled by the Garda (Police) and since the NI border is on county lines...

So you won't be able to drive from NI to ROI after 1.1.2021?

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	If any of them say once more 'we will have an Australian style Deal' when they know full well it means diddlysquat- or translates as NO Deal on WTO terms- I shall explode. But we all know that ERG never wanted a Deal, that they have held Johnson's strings from the start, and we all know why.

How much do you know about the ERG? I know a few members personally, especially from the 2019 intake. (Although I'm pretty Euroskeptic I generally don't share most of their other views so probably wouldn't have joined had I decided to go for parliament)

I'm pretty certain the majority would favour a deal provided it allowed for sovereignty. Why wouldn't they? Let's see what happens if it comes down to a vote.

Is the British position so different from the Swiss?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	The UK can hardly do a trade deal while the EU is effectively trying to take the UK's waters, and looking to control competition standards. How would they act if we asked if UK judges could pass judgement on what the French and German state decides to do. Or decided we'd be helping ourselves to Danish or Dutch waters. No doubt I will get groaned for saying it but that's what is being offered is not a deal, its vassal status. I really hope it won't happen unless there's a retreat from that position from the EU. Ultimately its going to be pretty disruptive to the UK but there are some things you can't compromise on.

I think the worry is that we are reaching this point to late. If it had been clear no agreement was possible mid year and they ended it then we could have worked towards this. But the risk now is that the UK will really crash out with no arrangements in place, which could be hugely disruptive.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think the worry is that we are reaching this point to late. If it had been clear no agreement was possible mid year and they ended it then we could have worked towards this. But the risk now is that the UK will really crash out with no arrangements in place, which could be hugely disruptive.

I totally agree. Perhaps if we agree we cannot agree we could at least agree to extend the transition period for a few months.

[JackieH]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	I'm pretty certain the majority would favour a deal provided it allowed for sovereignty. Why wouldn't they? Let's see what happens if it comes down to a vote.

it is emerging very clearly now that Johnson was backed by ERG because he promised them a No Deal. Also clear that he behaved abominably with Mrs Von Leihen on his last visit, coming in all guns blazing and asking her to get rid of Barnier, partly because he is French and nothing good comes out of France.


Either you are very naïve about the wish fora Deal, or ... not sure. It was always clear that a Deal that allows for 'cake and eat' it would never be on the table.


One word, well three 'European Tax Directive' - Punkt Schluss.


oh and Trading on tanking Sterling.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	it is emerging very clearly now that Johnson was backed by ERG because he promised them a No Deal. isit, coming in all guns blazing and asking her to get rid of Barnier, partly because he is French and nothing good comes out of France. Also clear that he behaved abominably with Mrs Von Leihen on his last Either you are very naïve about the wish for a Deal, or ... not sure. It was always clear that a Deal that allows for 'cake and eat' it would never be on the table. One word, well three 'European Tax Directive' - Punkt Schluss. oh and Trading on tanking Sterling.

As I've said, I do actually know numerous members of the ERG personally, and before they came MPs. There aren't many who want a no deal (none of the ones I know). Why would you over a reasonable trade deal? There are pretty much no benefits in that position.

On the other hand, you appear to make comments that have no evidence - bolded.

How exactly is a normal trade deal "having your cake and eating it"? Did the EU ask for access to Canadian waters and for EU judges to judge the actions of the Canadian government when it formed a trade deal? No.

The reason is that it is effectively claiming (partial) sovereignty over everything European, with or without the permission of the people who live there. I don't see how that could reasonably be disputed - should a reasonable trade deal not be met at least.

I'm a passionate believer that good government is local government - one of the reasons I moved here. For me EU membership isn't compatible with that.

Incidentally like you I'm also pretty pessimistic about the UK's (and especially London's) long term economic health - but for very different reasons (in my view, lack of innovation, lack of quality companies, long term tax discentivisation of doing more than the bare minimum, a short term outlook that favours grabbing profits over investing in long term growth, etc. etc.). I'm pretty honest about moving here because I wanted to get out of the UK as its (in my view) on a downward slope - but I think the reasons are more fundamental. So I'm not a jingoistic Brit who thinks the UK is great and everything forin is awful. I'm married to a person of foreign origin and have a mixed-race trilingual kid.

[Talk to you later]

I liked my EU passport and feel sorry that I won't have it any more but I find Eurocrats repulsive!

[JackieH]

Care to explain what you mean here, please.


What is a 'Eurocrat'? and why are they 'repulsive'. Would love to know, thanks.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think the worry is that we are reaching this point to late. If it had been clear no agreement was possible mid year and they ended it then we could have worked towards this. But the risk now is that the UK will really crash out with no arrangements in place, which could be hugely disruptive.

Just a minor point, it was clear years ago that no agreement was possible and the UK government had years to prepare for this eventuality.

[JackieH]

Of course, but no-one would have voted for it, well just a very small minority- had they told the truth.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	marton
	Just a minor point, it was clear years ago that no agreement was possible and the UK government had years to prepare for this eventuality.

Yes but the Gov't keeps digging its head in the sand in the vain hope the problem would simply melt away...because they are incompetent lying liars.

	Quote:	JackieH
	Of course, but no-one would have voted for it, well just a very small minority- had they told the truth.

Absolutely. But they didn't. They appealed to the selfish jingoistic folk who swallowed it all.

Dunno if this is true, or where it's from but based on Boris' past form it's horribly believable. And we are effectively going to have an internal border. Absolute forking mess.

[nickatbasel]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Is the British position so different from the Swiss?

Errr...yes.

[bowlie]

Boris does not want an agreement.

[curley]

Can I pull a Treverus here? As in:
Do we know it all now? When is Brexit done?

Yes? Can I repeat this every five pages? No? Ah well, it was worth a try.


How well I remember - as if it were yesterday - sitting in the sun at Pöstli Hasliberg receiving the Brexit-decision. With me going "wow, they did it" and some of my English friends saying "it's never going to happen". Had I know then what a debacle that will become ......

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	Just a minor point, it was clear years ago that no agreement was possible and the UK government had years to prepare for this eventuality.

Why is no agreement possible? Both sides want a trade deal, but the eu also want to fish in British waters. I'm no fan of bred it but this is not a balanced set of demands, the eu are demanding more?

[22 yards]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Of course, but no-one would have voted for it, well just a very small minority- had they told the truth.

Are we back on dick pics again? In this thread, now?