The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[arielch]

	Quote:	henk
	Depends on how you see it Britain did declare war but essentially did not do much after that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War

Lets be fair,they did some,for example,they run away at Dunkirk,and let the French to mend for themselves....

[Talk to you later]

Who won? Michael wants to know

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	So you are now blaming the UK for the Magenot line and failing to protect the Ardennes from Blitzkrieg. That's historical revisionism.... The French scouts actually spotted the Germans making their way through the forest very slowly, causing huge congestion, completely vulnerable to arial assault. The French General (forget which one), ignored his own scouts because he believed the Ardennes was impassible. If he'd bombed the hell out of the Germans the war probably would have been over much, much quicker. So the Germans pincer movement was 100% the fault of the French, not the British expeditionary army.

I wouldn't bother to engage with arielch anymore, I'd be interested to know what they teach in the schools in Poland!

[henk]

"I never get this argument, the whole of Europe has seen rising inequality aggravated by poor growth since 2008 (the UK actually being the exception). This harms the common people most. Almost the entire establishment backed Remain both at home and abroad, the Tory government at the time, the CBI, IMF etc.
"


Well, the rest (EU) don't have your elecroral district system, we have proportional representation, look it up, it also means you don't lose votes
Also we do not have a segregated upper class that essentially runs the country by networking starting in Eton etc.

[arielch]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I wouldn't bother to engage with arielch anymore, I'd be interested to know what they teach in the schools in Poland!

Dont know,I didnt grew here,im not a Pole,just a polish citizen.
But if you want,I can ask.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	arielch
	Somebody mentioned the "valiant" exploits of UK in ww2,and I gave him a dose of reality.

Given the number of people who died defending continental Europe, that's a pretty chillingly offensive statement.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	henk
	"I never get this argument, the whole of Europe has seen rising inequality aggravated by poor growth since 2008 (the UK actually being the exception). This harms the common people most. Almost the entire establishment backed Remain both at home and abroad, the Tory government at the time, the CBI, IMF etc. " Well, the rest (EU) don't have your elecroral district system, we have proportional representation, look it up, it also means you don't lose votes Also we do not have a segregated upper class that essentially runs the country by networking starting in Eton etc.

FYI - 11 out of 650 MPs went to Eton.

FYI number 2 - we don't need to "look up" PR.

By all means you can be against Brexit, against Boris Johnson or whatever. But calling the UK full of stupid ignorant people is just racism.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	henk
	"I never get this argument, the whole of Europe has seen rising inequality aggravated by poor growth since 2008 (the UK actually being the exception). This harms the common people most. Almost the entire establishment backed Remain both at home and abroad, the Tory government at the time, the CBI, IMF etc. " Well, the rest (EU) don't have your elecroral district system, we have proportional representation, look it up, it also means you don't lose votes Also we do not have a segregated upper class that essentially runs the country by networking starting in Eton etc.

I think most developed countries have upper classes that stamp on poor people. You can pick any country where rich tycoons earn billions and poor people are on below the minimum wage, its not unique to the UK. Of course its a terrible thing, but I think its a common problem across society from capitalism (and human greed) not "something about britain".

What annoys me is that negotiating the exit from a club you have been a member of for a long time is difficult at best, what it needs is a positive approach from both sides. Having a vindictive view that you intentionally want to hurt a country because you despise it pollutes the process. Its like having a non neutral juror at a trial - even if they are against the person accused of murder, its not good, because its no longer a fair trial.

[arielch]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Given the number of people who died defending continental Europe, that's a pretty chillingly offensive statement.

Really?The Soviet Union lost 26 millon souls,Poland,dont know how many millions,how many did the UK lost?And how many of those died fighting to keep your empire?

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	arielch
	Lets be fair,they did some,for example,they run away at Dunkirk,and let the French to mend for themselves....

Ok now thats just xenophobia - I have reported.

[henk]

hickfromkick or kickfromhick you are pretty condescending again, that's what i meant in my earlier post
designating someone as a troll when they do not share your beliefs

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	henk
	hickfromkick or kickfromhick you are pretty condescending again, that's what i meant in my earlier post designating someone as a troll when they do not share your beliefs

OK maybe you aren't - but the other person most definitely is.

I do think you crossed a line though. That's not being condescening. I'm not accusing you of being stupid, I'm accusing you of rudeness to the point of offence. I have removed my groans on your posts as a peace offering though and will drop it.

[arielch]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Ok now thats just xenophobia - I have reported.

Really?An historical truth is xenofobhia now?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	arielch
	Really?The Soviet Union lost 26 millon souls,Poland,dont know how many millions,how many did the UK lost?And how many of those died fighting to keep your empire?

The UK broke herself defending Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany. Half a million dead, two million homes destroyed in the south east alone, lost her place in the global world order as well as her Empire, food rationing until 1954, honouring war debts that were only paid off in 2006 (for comparison Germany had hers written off in 1953), post war taxes that were three times as high as pre-war, massive inflation etc.

[henk]

" I'm accusing you of rudeness"


don't understand , you say i am a troll and I am rude ?


Please expand

[RufusB]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The UK broke herself defending Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany. Half a million dead, two million homes destroyed in the south east alone, lost her place in the global world order as well as her Empire, food rationing until 1954, honouring war debts that were only paid off in 2006 (for comparison Germany had hers written off in 1953), post war taxes that were three times as high as pre-war, massive inflation etc.

More than half a million. 74k a month it its height, I believe.

[arielch]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The UK broke herself defending Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany. Half a million dead, two million homes destroyed in the south east alone, lost her place in the global world order as well as her Empire, food rationing until 1954, honouring war debts that were only paid off in 2006 (for comparison Germany had hers written off in 1953), post war taxes that were three times as high as pre-war, massive inflation etc.

Wrong,the UK,broke themselves by being cozy with Hitler from 1933 to 1939,and reaping what they sowed after 1939 for that,and also,by fights to hold their illegitimate Empire.

[henk]

OK, same here

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	henk
	" I'm accusing you of rudeness" don't understand , you say i am a troll and I am rude ? Please expand

I've removed referring you to a troll as that was unfair - I was angered by the other poster and lashed out also to you. For that I apologize.

I do think you should temper your Brexit comments a little. There is no problem being against and expressing your opinion - but you have more or less called people from my home town stupid and naive - which is hurtful. You can be against their POV without making (barely veiled) ad hominen attacks. As you have been reading the UK news a lot you will see there have been a lot of comments from Londoners to Northerners calling them backwards and stupid which I had to put up with for years - and its (marginally) even more offensive coming from someone outside the UK.

Its a sensitive topic that should be debated on its own merits, not the merits of the supporters on either side. For instance, I don't like Donald Trump much - but I don't want to call his supporters stupid. Many knew what they were voting for - and didn't actually like him personally. I think its reasonable to act with a bit of care before casting sweeping judgements about large sections of a country / area thereof, particularly (but not only) if its not your own country.

Largely in my experience - northerners actually understand the arguments on both sides. They aren't stupid.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	arielch
	Wrong,the UK,broke themselves by being cozy with Hitler from 1933 to 1939,and reaping what they sowed after 1939 for that,and also,by fights to hold their illegitimate Empire.

You mean Mosely et al?

Now you are just being provocative for the sake of it.