The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Faltrad
	And YOU pay attention to this one where the same guy says "It is the sovereign expression of the will of the people to leave the Union". http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...-Dienstag.html Now come with your link showing the man saying the sentence you quote. If you can, we'll get the context, and if you can't, it's a lie. Maybe you're right, but you have to prove it.

My bad, was in a rush and didn't have time to check the quote. Seemed entirely plausible at the time, post now deleted.

Still, you may wish to pay attention to this. Schulz is anti sovereignty of EU nations.

https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...60776707235841

"US have one currency, one Central Bank and one Govt. Europe has one currency, one Central Bank and...17 govts! Cannot go on like this."

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	PAY ATTENTION. This is what the Martin Schulz, President of the European Parliament said today: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate" Is there anymore evidence needed that the EU is undemocratic? Democracy has no place in the EU.

This wannab-quote looks fake. Very very much so.

What's your source? And no, an essentially anonymous blog or commentary doesn't count.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	This wannab-quote looks fake. Very very much so. What's your source? And no, an essentially anonymous blog or commentary doesn't count.

It is fake, see my previous post.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"US have one currency, one Central Bank and one Govt. Europe has one currency, one Central Bank and...17 govts! Cannot go on like this."

Switzerland has one currency, one central bank and 27 governments, and seems to do quite well.

The United States of Europe idea has been doing the rounds for a while now.

Interesting article going back to 2011

*In December 2011, Milano Finanza, published a scenario put together by British historian Niall Ferguson. It concerned Europe in 2021 and his predictions are already starting to materialize.*

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...60776707235841 "US have one currency, one Central Bank and one Govt. Europe has one currency, one Central Bank and...17 govts! Cannot go on like this."

doesn't the US have like 50 states?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	CathHarmony
	Someone commented in the Guardian that the age related voting stats are as follows: Brexit voter turnout by age: ** 18-24: 36% ** 25-34: 58% 35-44: 72% 45-54: 75% 55-64: 81% 65+: 83% Is this backed up by any reliable data? If you add them up and divide by 6 it comes to 67.5

Thank you for doing that plausibility test
The numbers are fake though the trend (the younger the more likely for Remain) is correct. See here for the actual data.

Listed below are percentages of the age group that voted for Remain. Take note that the first group is comprised of only seven years, while the oldest group consists of many more, group 75+ probably had an even lower share for Remain.

18-24: 73%
25-34: 62%
35-44: 52%
45-54: 44%
55-64: 43%
65+: 40%

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	doesn't the US have like 50 states?

51 if you add Canada, which would also give them a functioning democracy.

[marton]

Interesting article in the Guardian today "The leave campaign made three key promises – are they keeping them?"

1. £350M/week to NHS, we all know this will not happen

2. Immigration; seems now that Leave is committed to keeping free movement
Quotes
"leading Tory Eurosceptic MEP Daniel Hannan told BBC Newsnight that the leave campaign had never promised to cut immigration numbers and that the “free movement of workers to and from the UK should continue to ensure Britain remained within the single market”.
Boris Johnson also supported "free movement of workers" in his Telegraph article last Monday.

3. ‘Five million more migrants could enter Britain by 2030 if Turkey and four other applicant countries join the EU’
Does not seem likely that any of these countries will join EU soon!

Source

Edit; so what did the Leave voters here believe that they voted for and what from that will actually be delivered?

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	so what did the Leave voters here believe that they voted for and what from that will actually be delivered?

A new government?

Trouble in paradise...

Rome planning multi-billion euro rescue of precarious banking system as Italy's bank shares collapse in aftershock of Brexit.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ita...-idUKKCN0ZD0PF

Poland does not recognize Franco-German leadership in the EU (in German)

http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrich...r-eu-nicht-an/

[ZuriRollt]

	Quote:	marton
	Edit; so what did the Leave voters here believe that they voted for and what from that will actually be delivered?

For once, I have to agree with the Daily Mail headlines that England is currently a "Laughing Stock". Very sad.

[marton]

	Quote:	idefix
	It's so funny to read you, every post has more nonsense than the previous one

It is difficult to debate if you are not specific about what you define as nonsense?

[amogles]

Maggie did try to warn us, but nobody was paying attention



Man claims Margaret Thatcher appeared in cloud as a warning about looming EU referendum


source

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/02/man-cl...0/?ito=twitter

[MidfieldGeneral]

Spot on: https://urpe.wordpress.com/2016/06/2...ith-on-brexit/

The Day After: James Galbraith on Brexit

The groundwork for the Brexit debacle was laid last July when Europe crushed the last progressive pro-European government the EU is likely to see – the SYRIZA government elected in Greece in January 2015. Most Britons were not directly engaged with the Greek trauma. Many surely looked askance at the Greek leaders. But they must have noticed how Europe talked down to Greece, how it scolded its officials, how it dictated terms and how it made rebellious country into an example, so that no one else would ever be tempted to follow the same path.

If the destruction of Greece helped set the tone, Leave won by turning the British referendum into an ugly expression of English nativism, feeding on the frustrations of a deeply unequal nation, ironically divided by the very forces of reaction and austerity that will now come fully to power. The political effect has sent a harsh message to Europeans living in Britain, and to the many who would have liked to come. The economic effect will leave Britain in the hands of simpletons who believe that deregulation is the universal source of growth.

That such a campaign could prevail – leading soon to a hard right government in Britain – testifies to the high-handed incompetence of the political, financial, British and European elites. Remain ran a campaign of fear, condescension and bean-counting, as though Britons cared only about the growth rate and the pound. And the Remain leaders seemed to believe that such figures as Barack Obama, George Soros, Christine Lagarde, a list of ten Nobel-prize-winning economists or the research department of the IMF carried weight with the British working class.

Since nothing happens, at first, except the start of negotiations, the immediate economic effects may be small. If the drop in sterling lasts, British exports may actually benefit. If the world gets skittish, the dollar will rise and US exports may suffer, with possible political consequences in America this fall. Otherwise, in the most likely case, the markets will settle down and British life will continue normally at first – except, of course, for immigrants. This will further give the lie to the scare campaign.

Over time, however, as they apply to the United Kingdom, the structures of EU law, regulation, fiscal transfers, open commerce, open borders and human rights built over four decades will now be eroded. Exactly how this will happen – by what process of negotiation, with what retribution from the spurned powers in Brussels and Berlin, by what combination of slow change and abrupt acts, with what consequences for the Union of Scotland to England – is clearly unknown to the leaders of the Leave campaign. This morning they appeared on British television in equal parts triumphant and clueless.

And the crisis now erupts everywhere in Europe: in Holland and France, but also in Spain and Italy, as well as in Germany, Finland and the East. If the hard right can rise in Britain, it can rise anywhere. If Britain can exit, so can anyone; neither the EU nor the Euro is irrevocable. And most likely, since the apocalyptic predictions of economic collapse and “Lehman on steroids” that preceded the Brexit referendum will not come true, such warnings will be even less credible when heard the next time.

The European Union has sowed the wind. It may reap the whirlwind. Unless it moves, and quickly, not merely to assert a hollow “unity” but to deliver a democratic, accountable, and realistic New Deal – or something very much like it – for all Europeans.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	Interesting article in the Guardian today "The leave campaign made three key promises – are they keeping them?" 1. £350M/week to NHS, we all know this will not happen 2. Immigration; seems now that Leave is committed to keeping free movement Quotes "leading Tory Eurosceptic MEP Daniel Hannan told BBC Newsnight that the leave campaign had never promised to cut immigration numbers and that the “free movement of workers to and from the UK should continue to ensure Britain remained within the single market”. Boris Johnson also supported "free movement of workers" in his Telegraph article last Monday. 3. ‘Five million more migrants could enter Britain by 2030 if Turkey and four other applicant countries join the EU’ Does not seem likely that any of these countries will join EU soon! Source Edit; so what did the Leave voters here believe that they voted for and what from that will actually be delivered?

Personally I haven't even had time to digest whats happening. Now that we have voted to leave, I am busy calming my elderly parents. they are going to get a bill of 4100 GBP every year now unti 2030, there pensions are going to be dramatically cut, there is going to be a 5% hike in income tax, medical developments are going to halt and there will be war in Europe.
As you can imagine, they are terrified.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Personally I haven't even had time to digest whats happening. Now that we have voted to leave, I am busy calming my elderly parents. they are going to get a bill of 4100 GBP every year now unti 2030, there pensions are going to be dramatically cut, there is going to be a 5% hike in income tax, medical developments are going to halt and there will be war in Europe. As you can imagine, they are terrified.

I'm sure they are, and that makes me sad. I have to ask, where are you getting these concrete numbers from? What we can say for a moment is that the markets are reacting to uncertainty, and there are no concrete facts other than that.

[Stoker177]

Junckers is on his feet in the EU Parliament......he ain't happy!

[idefix]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Personally I haven't even had time to digest whats happening. Now that we have voted to leave, I am busy calming my elderly parents. they are going to get a bill of 4100 GBP every year now unti 2030, there pensions are going to be dramatically cut, there is going to be a 5% hike in income tax, medical developments are going to halt and there will be war in Europe. As you can imagine, they are terrified.

Tell them not to worry, war will be in EU not outisde, so UK has done very well to get out while the boat starts to sink. EU is a failed project and will dissolve any time now. Just like the USSR, Yugoslavia... Just like those countries, it's not democratic!

	Quote:	Stoker177
	Junckers is on his feet in the EU Parliament......he ain't happy!

He's just banned any commissioners having any informal discussions before the trigger is pulled Article 50. Which everyone is going to ignore.