The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Problem solved: How does this work? Tom

If it only it was that simple hey! .... it’s like saying there is a simple solution to Israel/Palestine.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Katya Adler, Laura Kuenssberg's BFF at Brexit Broadcasting Corporation, trying to put a positive spin on the trade deal struck. Yet, there's one very important sentence buried halfway through her article: 'Remember, the UK is a service-based economy, yet this agreement hardly deals with services at all.' It is indeed 'services' and not 'fish' that pays huge amounts of tax to pay for all essential ... services.

Theres been a lot of very personal and often highly sexist comment thrown at Kuenssberg for no good reason.

[yarpen]

	Quote:	marton
	Passporting, which allowed automatic access to the single market, is gone. Mutual Recognition of Professional Qualifications (MRPQs), the mechanism that allows workers such as doctors, engineers and architects to have their qualifications recognized across member states has also gone.

Switzerland recognizes many various medical degrees awarded according to EU regulations. It will be interesting to see what happens to British medical degrees awarded after 2020.

	Quote:	marton
	Aviation and haulage will continue as before with passenger and cargo planes still able to fly and land in the EU including stopover flights from Heathrow and elsewhere in the UK that originated from outside the UK.

If I understand correctly, nothing will change for the passengers: BA will be required to uphold obligations specified by EC261/2004 most of the time. Every itinerary that begins with a connecting flight from EU to Heathrow, or any other connecting airport in the UK, must include protection of passenger rights according to the regulation.

[wantone]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	For lowly qualified trainee instructors you are right, instructors with the highest qualifications will be welcome throughout the world. I know British Qualified instructors working in Canada, USA & France, just as I know Canadian & American instructors working in France. Switzerland is unusual as a high level of qualifications is not required to teach skiing, possibly no qualifications at all......

Μost seasonal jobs in Canada like instructors at ski resorts are done via Work Holiday visa (basically free and easy to get visa for 2 years for UK passport holders up to certain age).

After this visa you need to follow up with immigration process (lots of documents to file). It can be done but not easy.

[baboon]

	Quote:	bowlie
	It has been approved by the EP, the Commission and the Council. Why would they object to something that doesn’t affect any EU national? This relates to non-EUs travelling to the Schengen area and is no more onerous that a Schengen Visa request. The benefit being that every Schengen member has immediate access to information regarding the application; arrival and departure (from Schengen) information. Can it be misused, of course. Will it be? Who knows?

Eh? I'm talking about the whole trade deal, not just the visa system.

For example, there are parts of the European Parliament that will not be happy about the lack of binding of the UK to EU standards - particularly labour and environmental.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	baboon
	Eh? I'm talking about the whole trade deal, not just the visa system. For example, there are parts of the European Parliament that will not be happy about the lack of binding of the UK to EU standards - particularly labour and environmental.

Screw the EU!

They are SCUM!

Tom

[bowlie]

	Quote:	baboon
	Eh? I'm talking about the whole trade deal, not just the visa system. For example, there are parts of the European Parliament that will not be happy about the lack of binding of the UK to EU standards - particularly labour and environmental.

My apologies I thought you were referring to the ETIAS program.

We shall see what we see with the EU/UK agreement. I’m not certain Boris has the votes to get it past the British Parl. A lot of Conservatives wanted the no-deal option.

[curley]

	Quote:	Island Monkey
	If it only it was that simple hey! .... it’s like saying there is a simple solution to Israel/Palestine.

And the melody is just as simple/dull.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I think you are overestimating the difficulty for anyone with a skill. I came to CH in 1994 long before free movement. I just had a skill that was missing.

And you are underestimating it. Do you want to exchange places with non-EU competitors? Good for you, since your problem is already solved. You don't have to believe me, ask everyone who came to CH with a skill how easy it was. When we came here we were treated like non-EU, trust me in spite of salary conditions being met etc and excellent credentials it was tough. That's why I don't take any shit from anyone here. My OH was a highly sought after specialist with his studies already done, he didn't invent himself here, he didn't have to retrain or to prove anything anymore.

Ask first those from developing countries, not a few fat American or Canadian expats. Well, I guess the British will see for themselves how's like to be like everyone else from this point of view.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	.. not a few fat American or Canadian expats.

Nice.

	Quote:
	Well, I guess the British will see for themselves how's like to be like everyone else from this point of view.

Which was his point.

He made it, because he has a particular skill. I even disagree. He made it because he has a skill, there was a need for it and he adjusted, integrated and he had no desire to stay at home.

UK will have to work hard to attract their specialized workforce again, instead of seeing them leave.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Nice. Which was his point. He made it, because he has a particular skill. I even disagree. He made it because he has a skill, there was a need for it and he adjusted, integrated and he had no desire to stay at home. UK will have to work hard to attract their specialized workforce again, instead of seeing them leave.

Yes, "fat" as in high level management, highly payed CEO kind of positions. Not fat as in overweight but that I didn't expect everyone will get it.


Good for him and my intention wasn't to discuss his professional activity or outlook on life, I just wanted to point out that from the legislative point of view is not always easy. Many people have a skill, want to integrate and work hard for that but they don't start from the same place. They have to struggle with incredible bureaucracy and waiting time, time that could be used in a better way I think*. He moved here when freedom of movement wasn't a thing but there wasn't that much competition from all over the world either.

I don't care what UK will do in the future, was I have no intention to ever move there. But strictly speaking of freedom of movement, FMF is wrong, like totally wrong.

*oh, and quotas, since we talked about CH. If the quota has been exceeded you stand no chance of getting a work permit here.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	yarpen
	If I understand correctly, nothing will change for the passengers: BA will be required to uphold obligations specified by EC261/2004 most of the time. Every itinerary that begins with a connecting flight from EU to Heathrow, or any other connecting airport in the UK, must include protection of passenger rights according to the regulation.

Since BA will now be liable for all passengers refused entry into the EU/Schengen, I’d expect that it will change terms of the amount of scrutiny they’ll do at the boarding gates.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Castro
	There is some hope for enhanced relations between the UK and Switzerland thanks to the 'Mind the Gap plus' strategy and bilateral treaties. Up until now its been a triangular relationship between the UK and Switzerland with the EU in one corner, but now we have left its conceivable that further rights could be developed approaching those of EU citizens.

I expect it will become more difficult, since there is no longer a reason to give better terms to the UK than say the US, Canada, Australia etc...people tend to get very upset when they feel they are not being treated differently to others in the same circumstances.

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Since BA will now be liable for all passengers refused entry into the EU/Schengen, I’d expect that it will change terms of the amount of scrutiny they’ll do at the boarding gates.

The airline has always been liable for making sure the passenger has the right to enter the country they are travelling to. They already have to make sure Pax have a Schengen visa if they don't have a right to visa free travel, all that's changed is that they now have to do this for Brits too.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	JackieH
	I have not been able to check what is below myself- but it is from Jason Hunter who is a very experienced international negotiator (and yes, very pro EU) ''Yay. Great deal. Thanks Boris Johnson. ........ Merry Christmas folks and as always.... Bollocks to Brexit.''

Aren’t you happy? Weren’t you saying that Boris Johnson wanted no deal?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Island Monkey
	The airline has always been liable for making sure the passenger has the right to enter the country they are travelling to. They already have to make sure Pax have a Schengen visa if they don't have a right to visa free travel, all that's changed is that they now have to do this for Brits too.

Except that the default before was that most people would be landed, since they had a legal right .

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Since BA will now be liable for all passengers refused entry into the EU/Schengen, I’d expect that it will change terms of the amount of scrutiny they’ll do at the boarding gates.

Actually the liability rests with the passengers. If they don’t have the correct documents at the gate, they aren’t boarded. And their T&Cs clearly state that it is the passengers responsibility to have the correct papers. Unless you have bought a fully flexible ticket there will be no refund, rebooking or rerouting.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Aren’t you happy? Weren’t you saying that Boris Johnson wanted no deal?

British Prime Minister Theresa May said in Jan 2017 that not reaching a deal with the European Union would be better than concluding a bad exit deal for Britain.

Seems Boris thought the opposite; At long last we have a Brexit deal – and it's as bad as you thought

[bowlie]

	Quote:	yarpen
	If I understand correctly, nothing will change for the passengers: BA will be required to uphold obligations specified by EC261/2004 most of the time. Every itinerary that begins with a connecting flight from EU to Heathrow, or any other connecting airport in the UK, must include protection of passenger rights according to the regulation.

But you need to read the fine print of the Regulation, in this case the preamble where its says the Regulation applies to passengers departing an EU airport on any airline; and to passengers departing from a non-EU airport travelling to an EU airport IF flying on an EU airline.

For flights from the UK to Europe it is UK legislation that applies, not the EU regulation. For passengers travelling via the UK to the EU from third countries it is that countries laws which apply.

[Castro]

	Quote:	marton
	Seems Boris thought the opposite; At long last we have a Brexit deal – and it's as bad as you thought

I disagree with Tom Kibasi, opposing the deal does risk a no deal scenario because even thought the Tories have a majority there is the unpredictability of Brexit ultras stoking a rebellion, since this thin deal pleases exactly nobody.

The losers will be the British public and Johnson's get out card will be.. 'I brought you an excellent deal and Labour trashed it'. Damage limitation is the best option at this stage.