The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Mikers]

	Quote:	RufusB
	I'm not sure sure why you persist in the sneering snobby thing. Folk didn't know what they were voting for and /or they believed the lies. It's not a palatable thing to admit but it is true.

This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote.

For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think it’s biggest achievement is how democracy has won for working class people despite the snobbery and belittling tone of the classes that keep telling them they didn’t know what they were voting for. That trumps any economic or political effect.

According to a BBC survey, there are only 14% of UK citizens in the working class so some other classes must also have voted for Brexit.

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I agree. Shifted is a good description of how the relationship has changed with Europe. I think it’s not classed as a rude word though on EF.

I don’t think that was the word

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote. For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

Firstly a lot of people didn’t know what they were voting for when voting leave;
Some thought they were voting for a total cut of ties with EU. Some thought it would stop Immigration into U.K. but have no affect on them living in Spain. Some maybe imagined the deal we have today.

As for remainers not voting; I’m sure some didn’t vote as they were complacent and thought leave would never win, some couldn’t vote because they’d lived in the EU for over 15 years - yet it possibly affects them the most.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost.

Absolutely. But it is the same attitude that repulses any other member states thinking of leaving the EU and eating rice and beans the next 20 years. The UK knew damn well why they voted, all of them. I wish it wasn't that way, being squeezed between the EU and USSR feels crappy and we had huge hopes for the EU. I still do, I think. It's more than pathetic.

	Quote:
	I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for..

I think it is genuine and I think that that's worse. There is a huge gap of classes that for me coming from a country reducing all to proletariat, makes no sense. Maybe the gap is historic or is promoted and supported, but feels very anachronistic.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Not sure the joy is going to last - as reality dawns- but wait and see.

Such a shame you truly believe your opinion should trump people with a lower level of education. You should be ashamed of your superior left wing teacher mentality. So happy that democracy won.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote. For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

And I genuinely don't understand why you think they did. That's the rub, I suppose. Each side thinks the other idiotic. I still believe that the Leave voters were predominantly driven by a jingoistic (and unrealistic) view of The Empire As Was.

You only have to chat with folk to find out that what they thought would happen hasn't, why prices are rising, why it's more difficult to navigate the EU, why their bloody sky boxes no longer work in Spain. One of the mums at school was complaining that her Onstar navigation had stopped working and couldn't understand why.

What are the advantages to leaving? After a bazillion pages of this thread I'm still none the wiser.

	Quote:	Island Monkey
	Firstly a lot of people didn’t know what they were voting for when voting leave; Some thought they were voting for a total cut of ties with EU. Some thought it would stop Immigration into U.K. but have no affect on them living in Spain. Some maybe imagined the deal we have today. As for remainers not voting; I’m sure some didn’t vote as they were complacent and thought leave would never win, some couldn’t vote because they’d lived in the EU for over 15 years - yet it possibly affects them the most.

This.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Absolutely. But it is the same attitude that repulses any other member states thinking of leaving the EU and eating rice and beans the next 20 years. The UK knew damn well why they voted, all of them. I wish it wasn't that way, being squeezed between the EU and USSR feels crappy and we had huge hopes for the EU. I still do, I think. It's more than pathetic. I think it is genuine and I think that that's worse. There is a huge gap of classes that for me coming from a country reducing all to proletariat, makes no sense. Maybe the gap is historic or is promoted and supported, but feels very anachronistic.

Well I'm sure we'd all love to be enlightened. Nearly half really didn't want to leave.

The UK, like it or not, appalled and disgusted by it or not, is built on a class system. And it is only in the interest of one of the tiers that the status quo be maintained. Is it ridiculous and unfair? Yes. Will it change any time soon? Unlikely while the establishment is in charge. There is no-one guarding the guards.

[JackieH]

	Quote:	JackieH
	OK, let's be positive here and look at the bright side, Can anyone make a list of anything which is better now we have left.

Just repeating the simple question here- which was not about why or how - but about a list of anything which is better now for people in the UK.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	RufusB
	I'm not sure sure why you persist in the sneering snobby thing. Folk didn't know what they were voting for and /or they believed the lies. It's not a palatable thing to admit but it is true.

It's actually true that I didn't know what I was voting for. Nobody knew what would happen if leave won. But I sure knew what I was voting against and was willing to roll the dice on that basis.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Just repeating the simple question here- which was not about why or how - but about a list of anything which is better now for people in the UK.

Having enough vaccine to go around?

The old wrinklies voting for brexit have saved their own skin on that front. Remaining would have cost thousands of lives to extra Covid deaths.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Such a shame you truly believe your opinion should trump people with a lower level of education. You should be ashamed of your superior left wing teacher mentality. So happy that democracy won.

Democracy always wins, that is how the US was blessed with Trump.

[John William]

This could be another reason for the New Year delays in Amazon parcel delivery between the UK and the EU other
than the obvious Brexit.

Their singing Amazon parcels !!

Amazon's singing parcels video

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Democracy always wins, that is how the US was blessed with Trump.

So you believe Americans are stupid! not sure you would get elected on that but good luck. Business's & the stock market did well under Trump, perhaps the American dream is still alive, rather than the socialist dream you have.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So you believe Americans are stupid! not sure you would get elected on that but good luck. Business's & the stock market did well under Trump, perhaps the American dream is still alive, rather than the socialist dream you have.

Nobody as old as Marton is still a socialist. I actually bet he isn't.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Such a shame you truly believe your opinion should trump people with a lower level of education. You should be ashamed of your superior left wing teacher mentality. So happy that democracy won.

So what are you saying now? People did not vote in the expectation that their lot would not improve? And you think if things don't improve them they'll just role over - ah that's what we voted for - the same old same old....

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote. For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

Possibly people believe "that people didn’t know what they were voting for" because despite 28,000 posts nobody has bothered to explain.
We seem to have changed the heavy bureaucratic foot of the EU for the incompetent foot of Boris.
But it seems the working class is happy that the country is now run by Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, the product of Ashdown House, a preparatory boarding school in East Sussex, Eton and Balliol College, Oxford.

Luckily he is not one of those snobby upper-class people the working class so despise.

[JackieH]

I live in hope, that a list will materialise- but it seems clear that when people cannot find anything to say, they just retort to personal attacks instead.

The list ... please.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So what are you saying now? People did not vote in the expectation that their lot would not improve? And you think if things don't improve them they'll just role over - ah that's what we voted for - the same old same old....

We both know not much will change for the working classes. They just wanted to sock one to the establishment.

In no scenarios will they morph into EU loving guardianistas. They'll just be looking for another scalp.

[JackieH]

I was amazed to see the title today-

in The Sun

'England’s future now we’re out of the EU: Tiny nation with a lunatic leader'

but, back to that list, please.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	I was amazed to see the title today- in The Sun 'England’s future now we’re out of the EU: Tiny nation with a lunatic leader' but, back to that list, please.

Well we are a week and a half into real Brexit and so far I've already pointed towards the benefits of not being the EU as far as Covid is concerned. That's almost certainly saved thousands of lives.

I've also mentioned the Japan deal. A lot of Japanese products will now be cheaper for the UK consumer.

Give us 5 years to give it a proper run.