The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK is ahead of the EU with vaccinations & has vaccinated more people tan the E.U. No need to wait for the EU to decide on this, think of the no of lives that will be saved as a result! Even my 76 year old step mother in law has had the first dose, she was amazed she got it so quickly & was assuming February / March.

I have to say that I am not sure how come this happened...UK vaxing 1st dose not worrying about 2nd, the new strain threat, etc.? While CZ has ER and Covidariums doctors vaxing themselvs 1st before running after all '80yr and older'. I understand why, have to say. While there shouldn't even have been a lack of vax. I would have expected the EU to provide unified and best vax policy with actual super boosted production, and not argue about financial buffering of covid losses. China and Russia are mega producing vaccines and mega vaxing. EU is fighting about financial covid bandaids. No matter of my personal doubts in terms of the super fast approval process, this just irks me. We shouldn't have let the EU push us to have our labs, research and pharma plants go to hell.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Yes, that is clear- the UK or any other EU country could have chosen to.

However none of the EU countries had the ability to think for themselves, which is a good reason for the UK to leave

[MusicChick]

Leave the world of globalization?

[JackieH]

Best joke in a looong time.

For the list- it is rather short so far. I was expecting pages and pages to flow.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Yes, that is clear- the UK or any other EU country could have chosen to.

It wouldn't have mattered as there didn't seem to be any distribution concept, not to mention that not enough doses have been ordered.

[JackieH]

Ah well, I'll just wait for a few days, and I am sure it will all be revealed.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Best joke in a looong time. For the list- it is rather short so far. I was expecting pages and pages to flow.

I think it’s biggest achievement is how democracy has won for working class people despite the snobbery and belittling tone of the classes that keep telling them they didn’t know what they were voting for.

That trumps any economic or political effect.

[JackieH]

Not sure the joy is going to last - as reality dawns- but wait and see.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think it’s biggest achievement is how democracy has won for working class people despite the snobbery and belittling tone of the classes that keep telling them they didn’t know what they were voting for. That trumps any economic or political effect.

I must have missed that one....

When did you get a written constitution, a constitutional court, an elected upper house.. has the Queen's prerogative been over turned, do you have suddenly got a sovereign people????

No, nothing of substance has changed... the working class have just been pacified for another while because it suits the upper classes.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Not sure the joy is going to last - as reality dawns- but wait and see.

Oh it will last. Your failing to understand - like so many other people like yourself - why many people voted to leave. It had nothing to do with lists of advantages, but it meant the earth to them that we left.

I particularly like your complete failure to understand why many people wanted to leave is often twinned with the old number that leave voters ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’.

Personally I hope we get on and rejoin now in a few years, but I doubt it as long as your type is around sneering away like some intellectual upper class.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	I must have missed that one.... When did you get a written constitution, a constitutional court, an elected upper house.. has the Queen's prerogative been over turned, do you have suddenly got a sovereign people???? No, nothing of substance has changed... the working class have just been pacified for another while because it suits the upper classes.

It has changed. Doesn’t that just grate you a bit eh ?

[JackieH]

they are waking up though, fishermen, farmers, car workers, NHS and care workers, those in the NE and NW, Wales, Cornwall- all over. The word that keeps coming back is 'sh*fted*

It is becoming increasingly clear that they did not vote for 'THAT'.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	JackieH
	they are waking up though, fishermen, farmers, car workers, NHS and care workers, those in the NE and NW, Wales, Cornwall- all over. The word that keeps coming back is 'sh*fted* It is becoming increasingly clear that they did not vote for 'THAT'.

I agree. Shifted is a good description of how the relationship has changed with Europe. I think it’s not classed as a rude word though on EF.

[marton]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Ah well, I'll just wait for a few days, and I am sure it will all be revealed.

Well after the referendum the value of the £ fell by 15% and now with the EU deal, it has only risen 2% so the £ is now very competitively priced in world markets: This is assuming for EU exports the UK firms can navigate through the new red tape without excessive new costs.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think it’s biggest achievement is how democracy has won for working class people despite the snobbery and belittling tone of the classes that keep telling them they didn’t know what they were voting for. That trumps any economic or political effect.

The biggest achievement is that Johnson et al managed to convince the very people that they would be screwing over to vote for them. The Tories appealed to the latent selfishness and greed in enough people, that's it.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	No, nothing of substance has changed... the working class have just been pacified for another while because it suits the upper classes.

Yep.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Oh it will last. Your failing to understand - like so many other people like yourself - why many people voted to leave. It had nothing to do with lists of advantages, but it meant the earth to them that we left. I particularly like your complete failure to understand why many people wanted to leave is often twinned with the old number that leave voters ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’. Personally I hope we get on and rejoin now in a few years, but I doubt it as long as your type is around sneering away like some intellectual upper class.

I'm not sure sure why you persist in the sneering snobby thing. Folk didn't know what they were voting for and /or they believed the lies. It's not a palatable thing to admit but it is true.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	RufusB
	I'm not sure sure why you persist in the sneering snobby thing. Folk didn't know what they were voting for and /or they believed the lies. It's not a palatable thing to admit but it is true.

This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote.

For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think it’s biggest achievement is how democracy has won for working class people despite the snobbery and belittling tone of the classes that keep telling them they didn’t know what they were voting for. That trumps any economic or political effect.

According to a BBC survey, there are only 14% of UK citizens in the working class so some other classes must also have voted for Brexit.

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I agree. Shifted is a good description of how the relationship has changed with Europe. I think it’s not classed as a rude word though on EF.

I don’t think that was the word

[Island Monkey]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost. I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for, they did and this prevailing attitude from the remain side is what got every single leave voter down the voting booth on polling day while the EU loving students who could have swung the vote couldn’t be arsed to get out of bed and vote. For the sneering snobby bit take another read of the tone of the earlier post asking for a list of advantages to leaving.

Firstly a lot of people didn’t know what they were voting for when voting leave;
Some thought they were voting for a total cut of ties with EU. Some thought it would stop Immigration into U.K. but have no affect on them living in Spain. Some maybe imagined the deal we have today.

As for remainers not voting; I’m sure some didn’t vote as they were complacent and thought leave would never win, some couldn’t vote because they’d lived in the EU for over 15 years - yet it possibly affects them the most.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	Mikers
	This is why we lost.

Absolutely. But it is the same attitude that repulses any other member states thinking of leaving the EU and eating rice and beans the next 20 years. The UK knew damn well why they voted, all of them. I wish it wasn't that way, being squeezed between the EU and USSR feels crappy and we had huge hopes for the EU. I still do, I think. It's more than pathetic.

	Quote:
	I just don’t understand why you genuinely believe that people didn’t know what they were voting for..

I think it is genuine and I think that that's worse. There is a huge gap of classes that for me coming from a country reducing all to proletariat, makes no sense. Maybe the gap is historic or is promoted and supported, but feels very anachronistic.