The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[JackieH]

The list is not very long so far- but I do live in hope.

For Covid, any EU country could have chosen to go their own way on pruchasing the vaccines. You could argue that the disastrous situation with numbers in the UK currently, is the catastrophic failure of Johnson to lock in in time, on several occasions- based on the advice by all the medical associations- including recently over Christmas and even returning to school for just one day- one day to allow for super spread, just time enough. Nothing of course to do with Brexit or the EU.

And as said above, the EU provided massive funds to develop vaccines- which were developed and manufactured in EU. Even the so called Oxford massive is based on massive international cooperation.

But back to that long list of wonders. Please.

[JackieH]

Instead of groaning fatmf- how about that list? In the meantime, I shall keep totally away to give you and others time to compile it.

And then tomorrow we can start on the other one ...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Instead of groaning fatmf- how about that list? In the meantime, I shall keep totally away to give you and others time to compile it. And then tomorrow we can start on the other one ...

You sound like a stuck record, hence the groan. (I guess the younger people on the forum will not understand the stuck record comment )

You claimed you could not see my posts, clearly you can.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Option 3 (no vote) doesn't get counted (except as.sppoled ballots, if the voter decides to do that). If the voter does not want to participate in the democratic process, s/he simply gets their name crossed off the list at the polling booth as if they had actually voted. Australia has compulsory voting but nobody ever expects every voter to actually lodge a vote. They are, however, expected to turn up to the polling booth to consciously exercise their right to vote—or not to vote. I hope this makes sense...

Yes I get it, I was thinking of the Oz model when I replied. I see its a big advantage of knowing how many people "weren't bothered" from a communication perspective, i.e. so the government can honestly say "this is the results and this is how many people had a view", but it doesnt help in terms of decision making I think ? Unless im being stupid it wont change the percentages it will just allow for complete reporting of yes / no / didnt vote.

we'd still be here with people banging on about whether you can actually go ahead based on X, Y, Z whatever they have thought of next.

I think its great though as a practice BTW. it makes people vote, which will get a lot more people to actively make a decision.

[JackieH]

zipped- just waiting, patiently.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	Compulsory voting is the only way to understand the desires of ALL of the electorate.

Doesn't work.

Voting was mandatory in many (most?) Cantons until the '60ies and '70ies or so, with a fine (5-10 CHF as I recall, that's like 20-50 today) for those who couldn't be bothered. Didn't work, ever more people abstained anyway, so the fines got dropped. IIRC Schaffhausen is the only exception nowadays.

It's also a fundamental matter:
Since the voter is the final arbiter it must be their sole decision whether they use that right or not - it's a right, not an obligation. Given the differences between UK and CH, I can see though that their stance may differ, as they're not the final arbiter in the UK. However, if participation were mandatory the outcome should also be binding.

And what's the difference between "can't be bothered to return the envelope" and returning it empty, what different conclusion can be drawn?

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	And what's the difference between "can't be bothered to return the envelope" and returning it empty, what different conclusion can be drawn?

Evidence of a conscious/deliberate decision.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Evidence of a conscious/deliberate decision.

Going to vote or staying at home is also a conscious & deliberate decision. Just as getting people to vote who had never voted before brought a BREXIT win.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Going to vote or staying at home is also a conscious & deliberate decision. Just as getting people to vote who had never voted before brought a BREXIT win.

But staying at home does not have the sams impact as turning up and either not making a mark on the ballot, or spoiling it, or ticking the "don't want to vote" box.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	But staying at home does not have the sams impact as turning up and either not making a mark on the ballot, or spoiling it, or ticking the "don't want to vote" box.

I don't see any difference at all. You don't seem to appreciate that people can make their own decisions at home, no need to leave the house to spoil your ballot paper, what a waste of time.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't see any difference at all. You don't seem to appreciate that people can make their own decisions at home, no need to leave the house to spoil your ballot paper, what a waste of time.

I remember when someone attempted to be nasty to one of our Conservatives candidates by drawing a Ejaculating penis in our box and writing "arsehole" next to the candidates name.

We managed to get that counted as a Conservative vote - after all there is no limitation of what character you can use to mark the box. There's votes like this in ever general election.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	I remember when someone attempted to be nasty to one of our Conservatives candidates by drawing a Ejaculating penis in our box and writing "arsehole" next to the candidates name. We managed to get that counted as a Conservative vote - after all there is no limitation of what character you can use to mark the box. There's votes like this in ever general election.

Love it. Well done!

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't see any difference at all. You don't seem to appreciate that people can make their own decisions at home, no need to leave the house to spoil your ballot paper, what a waste of time.

You don't seem to appreciate that there is a difference - registering your dissatisfaction or whatever instead of just showing you CBA - but never mind. Nuance again.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	You don't seem to appreciate that there is a difference - registering your dissatisfaction or whatever instead of just showing you CBA - but never mind. Nuance again.

Are you claiming the outcome is different? If so for a left or right wing advantage?
I guess you believe those to lazy to vote would automatically vote remain or Labour!

[RufusB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Are you claiming the outcome is different? If so for a left or right wing advantage? I guess you believe those to lazy to vote would automatically vote remain or Labour!

Of course I'm not, how did you extrapolate that? What it does do, as your extensive university of life training should tell you, is make it clear to the relevant parties how much (measurable) dissatisfaction there is.

Those too lazy to vote in two consecutive elections shouldn't be able to vote in the next one on principle. I bet they'd all get their next eligible vote in then.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Of course I'm not, how did you extrapolate that? What it does do, as your extensive university of life training should tell you, is make it clear to the relevant parties how much (measurable) dissatisfaction there is. Those too lazy to vote in two consecutive elections shouldn't be able to vote in the next one on principle. I bet they'd all get their next eligible vote in then.

Tories will win next time, don't worry

[JackieH]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Ah well, I'll just wait for a few days, and I am sure it will all be revealed.

Nope - it just did not happen and repeating the question is not going to help at this stage.

[JackieH]

Ah just one more groan from FMF - that will truly make a difference to the outcome. How infantile and nonsensical.

[bowlie]

BBC reporting today that consumers in NI are having difficulties ordering on-line from the UK because of the customs formalities.

The 55.8% of NI voters, who voted remain, are likely not very happy!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Ah just one more groan from FMF - that will truly make a difference to the outcome. How infantile and nonsensical.

I am groaning what you wrote, rather than the outcome that I believe will be positive.