The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[JackieH]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	You need to wait. Brexit isn't instant gratification - its not even a policy, its the freedom to set own's policy

that was the idea- but this Deal does NOT give that freedom. It is based on a level playing field to ensure the UK is not able to produce goods or produce cheaper by not following same standards or rules- or tariffs will be applied.

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	You need to wait. Brexit isn't instant gratification - its not even a policy, its the freedom to set own's policy. Its like ambushing a new headteacher on his first day at the school and saying WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, THE OLD HEADTEACHER WAS SO MUCH BETTER, YOUVE DONE NOTHING Although - yeah. Britain has done much better with covid vaccination than the EU so far. Better than all 27 countries so far (possibly 26 - Denmark was doing ok).

Don't feed the troll.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	JackieH
	https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rema...1467438794599/ Well done Sir- it is good to see that some people saw right through the lies. This link was deleted by MC, as I did not add a comment. I thought it was clear and self explanatory. And indicates that it was not, 'just the inttellectual lefities' who could see the truth. Those in the North, and all parts of the UK, fishermen, farmers, car workers, and so many more- have now changed their mind- as they see how it will all affect them so deeply. Sovereignty (whatever that means- this deal does not give the UK Sovereignty...) does not feed your family.

Cancel culture!...

Sorry JackieH, it's just too funny.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Still waiting for that list ...

Ahem. Cough, Cough.

The list:

Loads of lovely pork and apple sausages in british supermarkets. yummy!
And stilton
and red leicester.

(I could stop there, but lets carry on).

Loads of Corona Vaccine.

Some minor things:

Ability to make trade deals round the world blah blah whatever not really interested in thats stuff.

plus now, da de daaaaaa:

no more speeding fines when you floor it in Europe! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eement-UK.html

Downsides of Brexit:

No ham sandwiches allowed through dutch border.

[Spinal]

The French will return to what they used to do - stop people at Calais and not let them board the ferry until the fines were paid.

[Ato]

	Quote:	Mikers
	no more speeding fines when you floor it in Europe! https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eement-UK.html

Does that go both ways? Can i now speed in the UK with an EU reg car?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Ato
	Does that go both ways? Can i now speed in the UK with an EU reg car?

According to the article, yes. However it does say if the cops pull you over in England you could well get fined on the spot. plus you'll get a kicking in the back of the police car for being forrin.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Still waiting for that list ...

What list?

Tom

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	What list? Tom

Ze list of names of people that voted for Brexit

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	that was the idea- but this Deal does NOT give that freedom. It is based on a level playing field to ensure the UK is not able to produce goods or produce cheaper by not following same standards or rules- or tariffs will be applied.

It explicitly isn't based on a level playing field. That was the May deal. Like most (every?) trade deal there's clauses allowing tariffs in the event of a substantive change in behaviour from either side.

But you keep on ignoring me when I tell you the biggest advantage to date has been non-participation both in EMA and the EU Covid vaccine "solidarity" scheme - despite the overwhelming evidence that it's allowed a much quicker rollout. Despite the fact that the NHS is incredibly inefficient and bureaucratic.

This wasn't predictable when the brexit vote took place but is evidence that a leaner approach can be better than a slow ponderous consultative EU and can give quicker and better results. I think we will see that on trade deals going forward. We've already seen Japan, which you also pop-pood. Japanese products, of which there are many, will now be cheaper for British consumers than EU.

If you just say "let's agree to disagree", when it's 100% clear that there are tangible benefits I don't know what any of us can do. Yes there are disadvantages of brexit, but there are also advantages, and more will pop up over time.

The EU market will continue to decline as a share of world trade and at some point Britain will be able to treat the EU as just another trading partner.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	It explicitly isn't based on a level playing field.

Thats why Bo Jo has done so well, he has achieved BREXIT, having a level playing field would be absurd, the UK wanted out of the protectionist club.

	Quote:	st2lemans
	What list? Tom

How does this work?

[marton]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	It explicitly isn't based on a level playing field. That was the May deal. Like most (every?) trade deal there's clauses allowing tariffs in the event of a substantive change in behaviour from either side. But you keep on ignoring me when I tell you the biggest advantage to date has been non-participation both in EMA and the EU Covid vaccine "solidarity" scheme - despite the overwhelming evidence that it's allowed a much quicker rollout. Despite the fact that the NHS is incredibly inefficient and bureaucratic. This wasn't predictable when the brexit vote took place but is evidence that a leaner approach can be better than a slow ponderous consultative EU and can give quicker and better results. I think we will see that on trade deals going forward. We've already seen Japan, which you also pop-pood. Japanese products, of which there are many, will now be cheaper for British consumers than EU. If you just say "let's agree to disagree", when it's 100% clear that there are tangible benefits I don't know what any of us can do. Yes there are disadvantages of brexit, but there are also advantages, and more will pop up over time. The EU market will continue to decline as a share of world trade and at some point Britain will be able to treat the EU as just another trading partner.

The elephant in this room is that without EU funding there would not have been a Pfizer vaccine available for the UK to roll out early, excessive cherry-picking....

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	marton
	The elephant in this room is that without EU funding there would not have been a Pfizer vaccine available for the UK to roll out early, excessive cherry-picking....

I've learnt that accusing others of cherry picking is what you do when your position is untenable:

a) the UK has also rolled out it's own vaccine (which is probably better suited to the acute stage of the pandemic); as has lots of other countries - India, Russia, China, US etc.

And more importantly

b)Your comment isn't relevant. I am talking about vaccine deployment not development. The fact that highly Europhilic Germany has had to do its own mini brexit and break its terms and conditions with the EU is surely evidence that the EU scheme is not working

In an alternative reality where the Pfizer vaccine didn't exist the UK would be even further ahead as the EU is nowhere near deploying the AZ vaccine whereas the UK is already up and running.

	Quote:	marton
	The elephant in this room is that without EU funding there would not have been a Pfizer vaccine available for the UK to roll out early, excessive cherry-picking....

Germany give Pfizer $445 million - not the EU.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Ze list of names of people that voted for Brexit

Is it a variation of 'Who did that?', a useless question to ask in a class?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Is it a variation of 'Who did that?', a useless question to ask in a class?

Of course some older teachers never worked that out, likely most of those, beyond their 'best before date' have now retired

[HickvonFrick]

For the record, I do think some of the EU countries will overtake the UK as:

- I think there's an advantage in being a smaller country in this kind of bureaucratic exercise
- The NHS is an embarrassing shambles and relying on letters in the post
- There is no central record of where people live in the uk - obviously a problem when you are inviting people for vaccination. Probably less of a problem for the elderly as they are more integrated into the healthcare system. The NHS certainly would have no idea where I lived before i emigrated. I don't know how they were planning on sending me a letter.

[amogles]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	For the record, I do think some of the EU countries will overtake the UK as: - I think there's an advantage in being a smaller country in this kind of bureaucratic exercise - The NHS is an embarrassing shambles and relying on letters in the post - There is no central record of where people live in the uk - obviously a problem when you are inviting people for vaccination. Probably less of a problem for the elderly as they are more integrated into the healthcare system. The NHS certainly would have no idea where I lived before i emigrated.

I expect all of these problems will be fixed in the end.

But by and large Britain has always been a mess compared to other countries because that's the way we work. We fix things in our own time. We're better at improvisation than we are at planning. That's why things are generally a mess but never get really catastrophically bad.

[JackieH]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Ze list of names of people that voted for Brexit

Well, time to change the list- the first one was very short, very short indeed.

Now can anyone perhaps begin a list of the 'project fear' list, which has now become 'project reality'.