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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #28901  
Old 13.01.2021, 13:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I expect all of these problems will be fixed in the end.

But by and large Britain has always been a mess compared to other countries because that's the way we work. We fix things in our own time. We're better at improvisation than we are at planning. That's why things are generally a mess but never get really catastrophically bad.
That may be the case, but I hate the lack of ordung. I'm much more Swiss in this respect. I'd have a built some kind of giant centralized database which you can use some kind of control centre.

The UK want to run things centrally, but those on the centre have no knowledge and not much ability.
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  #28902  
Old 13.01.2021, 13:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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EU Advance Purchase Agreement of 200 million Pfizer doses in September 2020 financed with the Emergency Support Instrument, which has funds dedicated to the creation of a portfolio of potential vaccines with different profiles and produced by different companies.

That is more than $445 million, usually, your posts are more accurate.

Let us not forget there was the European Investment Bank EU guaranteed loan in June to provide Pfizer partner BioNTech with up to €100 million in debt financing for COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing.
By September 2020 the vaccine was already pretty much developed. Anyway, 200 milllion is a low amount per head. Less per capita than the UK ordered.

Likewise, the US, with a much smaller population has ordered 200m.

If the EU didn't exist - the member states would probably have ordered more on this basis. So I think the EU has actually removed funds from Pfizer if anything.
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  #28903  
Old 13.01.2021, 13:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK want to run things centrally, but those on the centre have no knowledge and not much ability.
I think in that respect Britain is not too different from other European countries.

The difference is in the quality of the civil service and administration that sits between those in the centre and the general public.
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  #28904  
Old 13.01.2021, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think in that respect Britain is not too different from other European countries.
Except V4 and CH. Iceland maybe too, due to its cute size.

Which is probably pretty much the only good thing we took from nasty communism - if anyone still insists on some kind of a 'list' and isn't able to see the good stuff outside of the EU, even if it's in front of their noses right here in CH.

The EU tried to create a centralized admin which due to the fact that they just got stuck in the initial phase of creating many jobs for many little admin tasks. Expensive, opaque and useless. If anyone knows anything about infrastructure here, it is getting simplified those many years I've been here..And not only because labor costs a lot.
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  #28905  
Old 13.01.2021, 14:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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By September 2020 the vaccine was already pretty much developed. Anyway, 200 milllion is a low amount per head. Less per capita than the UK ordered.

Likewise, the US, with a much smaller population has ordered 200m.

If the EU didn't exist - the member states would probably have ordered more on this basis. So I think the EU has actually removed funds from Pfizer if anything.
Sure 200 million is a low amount per head but you do know the EU ordered advance doses from multiple vaccine developers because nobody knew which ones would actually be effective.

"If the EU didn't exist" - is this meant to be a serious argument? No doubt if the EU had not existed then the UK would now be leading the world
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  #28906  
Old 13.01.2021, 14:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Germany give Pfizer $445 million - not the EU.
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EU Advance Purchase Agreement of 200 million Pfizer doses in September 2020 financed with the Emergency Support Instrument, which has funds dedicated to the creation of a portfolio of potential vaccines with different profiles and produced by different companies.

That is more than $445 million, usually, your posts are more accurate.
I thought he was referring to the $445 million dollars that the German government paid to BionTech to help finance the vaccine development and research.
That is totally independent of any purchase agreements and didn’t involve the EU at all.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...not-washington
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  #28907  
Old 13.01.2021, 15:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Technically the man and woman on the Clapham omnibus have voted Labour consistently for some time. Just saying 😬
Are you suggesting they didn’t vote for Boris as Mayor? As to “consistently”, we’ll have to see how Sadiq does if they ever get around to holding the next mayoral election
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  #28908  
Old 13.01.2021, 15:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I thought he was referring to the $445 million dollars that the German government paid to BionTech to help finance the vaccine development and research.
That is totally independent of any purchase agreements and didn’t involve the EU at all.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...not-washington
Yep.

Brexit had nothing to do with the vaccine deployment in the UK. The UK gov't, for once, got ahead of the curve with their order. Brexit could have meant that the EU orders were fulfilled over non-EU. Thankfully it did not. It was understood that a pandemicmwas coming, but that it would be Flu based, not SARS. Hence the huge additional order of flu vaccines by last July too.


Not a list of who voted, merely a list of all the Brexity benefits. Only that's probably not as funny as taking pot shots.
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  #28909  
Old 13.01.2021, 15:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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For the record, I do think some of the EU countries will overtake the UK as:

- I think there's an advantage in being a smaller country in this kind of bureaucratic exercise
- The NHS is an embarrassing shambles and relying on letters in the post
- There is no central record of where people live in the uk - obviously a problem when you are inviting people for vaccination. Probably less of a problem for the elderly as they are more integrated into the healthcare system. The NHS certainly would have no idea where I lived before i emigrated. I don't know how they were planning on sending me a letter.
Not just letters. Emails and MSN too. Keep up.

The electoral roll does that, devolved to councils. Also if you are registered with a GP, as most folk are, then no problem.

Everyone over 16 is on the HMRC database - that's pretty centralised - and can be easily cross refd with passports/driving licenses.

A centralised database would be pretty big brother, no? I thought folk were against that on here. Besides everyone with a phone has voluntarily GPSd themselves anyway.
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  #28910  
Old 13.01.2021, 16:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I am surprised no-one has come up with a compilation of things promised which have not materialised through this 'deal'. I can think of quite a few- but having asked the question- I think it is better, for a while at least- to wait for others to answer it.

Last edited by JackieH; 13.01.2021 at 18:11.
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  #28911  
Old 13.01.2021, 16:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

British Expats who voted for Brexit become the laughing stock after furiously moaning about the consequences,
now the penny drops.


The Indy - report on British Expats in Spain who are taken aback by the consequences of Brexit

Last edited by John William; 13.01.2021 at 17:11.
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  #28912  
Old 13.01.2021, 18:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am surprised no-one has come up with a compilation of things promised which have not materialised through this 'deal'. I can think of quite a few- but having asked the question- I think it is better, for a while at least- to wait for others to answer it.
I did.
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  #28913  
Old 13.01.2021, 18:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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British Expats who voted for Brexit become the laughing stock after furiously moaning about the consequences,
now the penny drops.


The Indy - report on British Expats in Spain who are taken aback by the consequences of Brexit
If anyone is on Twitter, RS Archer has some wonderfully entertaining threads on this subject. He's a dual citizen of UK and France. He has expat neighbours. Or had.
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  #28914  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I did.
You gave your interpretation of the reason why people voted to leave. Not quite the same as a positive outcome of Brexit.
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  #28915  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Here is a short list, and each can of course be discussed individually- of project fear which have turned out, very quickly, to be project reality

1. tariffs for trade with EU- we were promised none.

2. NI border and current very difficult situation in NI

3. Fishing rights

4. Financial Services

5. Security/terrorism cooperation

6. Striking so called New Trade Deals

7. UK / EU qualification equivalence

8. Huge staff shortages in the NHS and care, in the middle of a pandemic + staff in agriculture

9. Erasmus

Last edited by JackieH; 13.01.2021 at 21:31.
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  #28916  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Strange echo here, the same question a few times a day..

We turned a regime over. Nobody has asked a few days after in Nov 89 - Dec 89 to list concrete positive outcome and every day. Like that voice from the back of the car "Are we there yet"..? I guess I understand that people are impatient, but Swiss are known for not being rash. So while I am not a historian nor politician, I feel quite comfortable here sitting back and waiting for the positive outcome ripen as months and years pass.
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  #28917  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Here is a short list, and each can of course be discussed individually- of project fear which have turned out, very quickly, to be project reality

1. tariffs for trade with EU- we were promised none.

2. NI border and current very difficult situation in NI

3. Fishing rights

4. Financial Services

5. Security/terrorism cooperation

6. Striking so called New Trade Deals

7. UK / EU qualification equivalence

8. Erasmus
9. Export of ham sandwiches
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  #28918  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Everyone over 16 is on the HMRC database - that's pretty centralised - and can be easily cross refd with passports/driving licenses.
HMRC, knows me, DVLA says I have a UK license, I have a UK passport, I was registered with a UK DR, but not lived in the UK or seen a UK DR for 27 years.
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  #28919  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

As the Speaker said to Johnson today- 'answer the question'.

Any comments on the above instead of sneering? Facts? My last post is not question, or a repeat, but some facts to be discussed. Put forwards good arguments instead.
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  #28920  
Old 13.01.2021, 19:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Strange echo here, the same question a few times a day..

We turned a regime over. Nobody has asked a few days after in Nov 89 - Dec 89 to list concrete positive outcome and every day. Like that voice from the back of the car "Are we there yet"..? I guess I understand that people are impatient, but Swiss are known for not being rash. So while I am not a historian nor politician, I feel quite comfortable here sitting back and waiting for the positive outcome ripen as months and years pass.
As someone with both CZ and GB nationalities, I see no parallel or commonalities between the "velvet revolution" and Brexit.

How many UK leavers were beaten or killed?
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