The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[JackieH]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Good point. I remember a time under FMOP when any EU doctor could work anywhere! Who recompensed Romania when their Doctors chose to work over here I demand to know ? If we are short of Doctors we need to train more Doctors here in blighty. Im sure there was a party some time ago going on about more locally trained healthcare staff...hmm.... https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/n...es-15-04-2015/

Totally agree. BTW do you know how many years it takes to train a doctor?

Don't need to go so far btw. Our GP is French and lives in France, but chooses to work in CH where conditions are much better and she can earn the same working 50%. Same for nurses and care staff.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Rule 1- not so easy. As the GFA is there, right in the middle- and there are NO solutions. Anyone who knows Ulster Unionists know that this is a very dangerous situation. Easy for us to say 'oh let's 're-unite' Ireland and be done with it' have not a single clue about the reality out there, not one. You mentionned no bloodshed in a post above- but the tensions mounting in NI are truly concerning. Rule 2 - your rule, not mine. As the BBC and other Press are in the pocket of the Cons and Brexiters, it is truly informative to have true independent, real, journalism.

Jackie. You are not stupid. You know that people working in the BBC are younger, more urban, more ethnically diverse and higher earning than average. Do you really think they are Brexit-inclined.

Demographically I'd expect them to be 2 or even 3 to 1 in favour of remain. Of course, they are professionals trying to do their job however they vote - but I think that your comment has no basis whatsoever.

The New European is not an objective publication and doesn't even pretend to be. If there was any benefit to Brexit, it would not be reported. It is there to sell copy to furious rejoiners. Its about as objective as the Mail or the Express. The BBC isn't perfect, but it is at least attempting to paint a balanced and objective picture - I think to claim otherwise is unfair on the staff who work there. You wouldn't like it if similar comments were made about teachers with no evidence.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Rule 2 - your rule, not mine. As the BBC and other Press are in the pocket of the Cons and Brexiters, it is truly informative to have true independent, real, journalism.

Nonsense the BBC is hugely left wing, the Conservatives won despite this.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Nonsense the BBC is hugely left wing, the Conservatives won despite this.

I'm not sure its left or right wing, but it is "metropolitan".

[Mikers]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Totally agree. BTW do you know how many years it takes to train a doctor? Don't need to go so far btw. Our GP is French and lives in France, but chooses to work in CH where conditions are much better and she can earn the same working 50%. Same for nurses and care staff.

5 years, then the junior doctor years of hell, then your a registrar.

do I win a prize ?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	I'm not sure its left or right wing, but it is "metropolitan".

the BBC is as lefty as it gets. Complete waste of taxpayers money, they should switch to a paid subscription service where you pay if you like their content. I'd give them 6 months, a year tops.

[Castro]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	The one thing Gove isn't is thick or incompetent. He's head and shoulders the most competent person in the house of commons. You might not like him, but a lightweight he is not.

He is certainly very intelligent, competent and an excellent communicator but that's what makes him so dangerous, because he's also an egotistical, deceitful, two-faced man who has no qualms in stabbing colleagues in the back (e.g. Johnson in 2016). And who can forget his infamous statement “I think the people of this country have had enough of experts”?

He is the embodiment of the Tory nasty party.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Castro
	And who can forget his infamous statement “I think the people of this country have had enough of experts”?

I suspect a majority of the population would agree, this applies to investment & many things in life.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	The one thing Gove isn't is thick or incompetent. He's head and shoulders the most competent person in the house of commons. You might not like him, but a lightweight he is not.

That's always been my take of Michael Gove too. Ferociously intelligent and one of the few politicians that a clear vision of what his objectives for the country are. A real shame this was tarnished somewhat when he turned on Boris Johnson in 2016!

[RufusB]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	The one thing Gove isn't is thick or incompetent. He's head and shoulders the most competent person in the house of commons. You might not like him, but a lightweight he is not.

He's not stupid but he certainly was an incompetent Education Secretary.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Mikers
	5 years, then the junior doctor years of hell, then your a registrar. do I win a prize ?

No you voted for Brexit so clearly deserved it.

FWIW the medics at my undergrad definitely did 6 years.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Good point. I remember a time under FMOP when any EU doctor could work anywhere! Who recompensed Romania when their Doctors chose to work over here I demand to know ? If we are short of Doctors we need to train more Doctors here in blighty. Im sure there was a party some time ago going on about more locally trained healthcare staff...hmm.... https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/n...es-15-04-2015/

You are a bit out of date.
The Government announced a plan in 2017 to increase medical school places by 25% in 2018 and soon after to double the number of places.

[JackieH]

	Quote:	Mikers
	5 years, then the junior doctor years of hell, then your a registrar. do I win a prize ?

Sorry, nope.

5 years or 6
foundation one
foundation two
junior middle grade (can be several years)
senior middle grade (can take many years)

or for GPs
5 years
foundation one
then 3 years vocational training (and yes, often called Registrar these days).

That is of course if kids can do their GCSEs and A'Levels first.

[bowlie]

From the BBC:

	Quote:
	A top German logistics company has become the latest firm to suspend deliveries to the UK because of increased paperwork following Brexit. DB Schenker, owned by national rail firm Deutsche Bahn, said that for the time being, it was not accepting new UK-bound consignments. "Enormous bureaucratic regulations" linked to post-Brexit trading arrangements were to blame, it said. Only about 10% of goods came with accurate customs forms, it added. Last week, parcel delivery company DPD temporarily suspended shipments from the UK to the EU for similar reasons. DPD said it had been "working non-stop" since then to reduce delays. "All European parcels sent to us between 30 December to 7 January have now either been shipped to Europe or will be returned to customers by Thursday due to missing data," it added. "These parcels were processed manually, something which is not sustainable moving forward." DPD said its service would "remain paused" pending a further update on Friday. Meanwhile, firms including Ocado, Marks & Spencer and Fortnum and Mason have cited problems delivering to customers in the EU and Northern Ireland. A number of firms in the EU have also suspended or ended UK deliveries because of post-Brexit rules. In a statement, DB Schenker urged customers to familiarise themselves with the new rules. "DB Schenker expects a further increase of shipments in January. The logistics service staff will only be able to process these swiftly if there is a considerable rise in the rate of shipments with complete papers," it said. The firm gave no date for the potential resumption of normal service.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	Castro
	He is certainly very intelligent, competent and an excellent communicator but that's what makes him so dangerous, because he's also an egotistical, deceitful, two-faced man who has no qualms in stabbing colleagues in the back (e.g. Johnson in 2016). And who can forget his infamous statement “I think the people of this country have had enough of experts”? He is the embodiment of the Tory nasty party.

He's in the Tory Party - what do you expect .

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	bowlie
	From the BBC:

Obviously biased in favour of Brexit according to Jackie!

[JackieH]

Well, the BBC said recently they do not want to expose Johnson's, and the Tory party's LIES, because it would undermine British Democracy.

Peter Oborne is a very long Conservative supporter but here is what he says:

''A big reason for Johnson’s easy ride is partisanship from the parts of the media determined to get him elected. I have talked to senior BBC executives, and they tell me they personally think it’s wrong to expose lies told by a British prime minister because it undermines trust in British politics. Is that a reason for giving Johnson free rein to make any false claim he wants?''

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Well, the BBC said recently they do not want to expose Johnson's, and the Tory party's LIES, because it would undermine British Democracy. Peter Oborne is a very long Conservative supporter but here is what he says: ''A big reason for Johnson’s easy ride is partisanship from the parts of the media determined to get him elected. I have talked to senior BBC executives, and they tell me they personally think it’s wrong to expose lies told by a British prime minister because it undermines trust in British politics. Is that a reason for giving Johnson free rein to make any false claim he wants?''

Peter Oborne is a misanthropist who hates everything and everyone. I am sorry but its total rubbish. The BBC isn't perfect but makes a good faith attempt to provide balanced journalism.

Ultimately the fact we have all the right wing people complaining its left wing and vice versa is a decent sign that its doing its job ok.

[JackieH]

I would have said the same not so long ago.

Marr, Kuensberg in particular - no longer.

If exposing the lies of our PM and Cabinet is 'undermining Democracy' then what is the point. North Korea anyone?

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	JackieH
	I would have said the same not so long ago. Marr, Kuensberg in particular - no longer.

Andrew Marr is a documented left winger (although a professional - no complaints and no different to Andrew Neil, a documented right winger in his on air neutrality).

Kuensberg I don't think is particularly party political, and certainly has no history of being involved with the parties as a young woman, and has been treated with outrageous levels of vitriol and sexism - really Corbyn's people are not dissimilar to how Trump supporters in their detachment from reality and how they treat people who question them. Thankfully both are history. They view her age and gender as something they can use to exploit and bully her into submission, which is an absolute disgrace.

By repeating their fake news you are complicit in the sexist bullying of a young woman who dares to try and live in what was a mans world.