Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #29101  
Old 28.01.2021, 13:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,875
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
From today's Telegraph. Ouch!
Behaving like a dictatorship atm.
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #29102  
Old 28.01.2021, 13:45
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,875
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Have you seen the front pages of the UK gutter press today- utterly shameful!?


The EU paid £298,000,000 up front, back in August last year to help the UK build manufacturing capacity to make this vaccine in Britain.

https://www.reuters.com/.../us-health-coronavirus-eu...
And the uk paid up much much more per capita months earlier to get the ball rolling...

You'll notice the us also has much more vaccine.

The EU, instead of showing contrition for its abject and inefficient lead, is attempting to strong arm a neighbouring country.

And now an unelected body that has no law enforcement role (EU commission) has demanded a raid on a private company that has only worked to help. Why on Earth would AZ be favouring the UK over the EU. The EU has no role in telling a private company how it's orders should be fulfilled. It can't pay less and late then complain it's getting the vaccine later.

Well at least the mask is well and truly off now.
The following 2 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #29103  
Old 28.01.2021, 13:51
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,200
Groaned at 1,035 Times in 580 Posts
Thanked 5,468 Times in 2,446 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now reports that Germany recommends AstraZeneca vaccine only for those under 65. This is turning into a full on meltdown
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #29104  
Old 28.01.2021, 13:57
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,363
Groaned at 718 Times in 602 Posts
Thanked 24,036 Times in 12,587 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
And the uk paid up much much more per capita months earlier to get the ball rolling...

You'll notice the us also has much more vaccine.

The EU, instead of showing contrition for its abject and inefficient lead, is attempting to strong arm a neighbouring country.

And now an unelected body that has no law enforcement role (EU commission) has demanded a raid on a private company that has only worked to help. Why on Earth would AZ be favouring the UK over the EU. The EU has no role in telling a private company how it's orders should be fulfilled. It can't pay less and late then complain it's getting the vaccine later.

Well at least the mask is well and truly off now.
So, in summary, the UK would have been better off and had fewer problems by staying in the EU.
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #29105  
Old 28.01.2021, 14:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,875
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Now reports that Germany recommends AstraZeneca vaccine only for those under 65. This is turning into a full on meltdown
Long term the other two are probably a bit better but atm I'd just be vaccinating as many old people as you can.

As we are in a situation of limited supply atm that's an extraordinarily stupid decision. Letting the Perfect be the Enemy of the Good.
  #29106  
Old 28.01.2021, 14:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,875
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So, in summary, the UK would have been better off and had fewer problems by staying in the EU.
Well I'd rather have the problem of the EU throwing its weight around than a problem of insufficient vaccine.
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #29107  
Old 28.01.2021, 14:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Now reports that Germany recommends AstraZeneca vaccine only for those under 65. This is turning into a full on meltdown
...being denied by the German government btw. If you burrow into the stories, it looks like someone in the German press has displayed FMF's aptitude for statistics.

I just checked the actual level of testing on older people by AZ and it is pretty low - only 3-4% of the test subjects were 70 or over (low as this is precisely the age group that have the weakest immune response generally). That is going to make any results (unless fairly extreme one way or the other) statistically rather unreliable for that age group. No idea how that compares with the other vaccines btw.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #29108  
Old 28.01.2021, 14:52
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 2,200
Groaned at 1,035 Times in 580 Posts
Thanked 5,468 Times in 2,446 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
...being denied by the German government btw. If you burrow into the stories, it looks like someone in the German press has displayed FMF's aptitude for statistics.

I just checked the actual level of testing on older people by AZ and it is pretty low - only 3-4% of the test subjects were 70 or over (low as this is precisely the age group that have the weakest immune response generally). That is going to make any results (unless fairly extreme one way or the other) statistically rather unreliable for that age group. No idea how that compares with the other vaccines btw.
Yes, what the Germans are saying is that the sample size for those over 65 is too small to be statistically significant, which strictly speaking is true. That said one can use deductive reasoning to determine that is very likely the Pfizer vaccine does work given the efficacy on other age groups.

Pretty hefty sample size from the UK that they'll be able to use soon though
  #29109  
Old 28.01.2021, 15:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,363
Groaned at 718 Times in 602 Posts
Thanked 24,036 Times in 12,587 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Well I'd rather have the problem of the EU throwing its weight around than a problem of insufficient vaccine.
You know the old saying about "better the EU in the tent pi##ing out rather than outside the tent pi##ing in"

It is impossible to know if the vaccine availablity situation would have been the same if the UK had stayed in the EU and so been around to influence the decision making.
  #29110  
Old 28.01.2021, 16:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

So the EU is implementing its new set of rules allowing blocking of exports if wished by a nation https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-vaccine-plant

Will be interesting to see if this is actually carried out though. If the EU were really to stop vaccines the UK has a contract for and simply decide it will use those itself I would imagine it would have an astonishing effect on how people viewed Europe from inside the UK. Having a a few policies that people disagree with, ok so life goes on. Stopping vaccines which will save people's lives so they can use them themselves by ignoring a contractual agreement, I mean, wow.
The following 2 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #29111  
Old 28.01.2021, 20:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Here
Posts: 512
Groaned at 59 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 1,477 Times in 524 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, not quite sure I understand your post here. The millions were given by the EU to make the vaccine in UK - on the proviso it would then have its fair share of the vaccine - for the EU.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. AZ is a private company.
The following 2 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #29112  
Old 28.01.2021, 20:57
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,373
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. AZ is a private company.
I think she means it's not a government controlled nationalised business, which is the ideal situation for a left wing biased voter
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #29113  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. AZ is a private company.
Ah thanks, yes, of course, I meant to say it is not a State Run company- it is of course a Public Limited Company.
This user would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #29114  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:09
SponPlague's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 8045 Zurich
Posts: 240
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 152 Posts
SponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputation
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It looks like AZ will publish some form of the contract:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N2K37N5
  #29115  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:11
SponPlague's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 8045 Zurich
Posts: 240
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 257 Times in 152 Posts
SponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputationSponPlague has an excellent reputation
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now the Spanish are blaming the EU:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N2K34X7

Quote:
MADRID, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Spain’s health ministry is blaming the European Union for delays to COVID-19 vaccine deliveries that forced Madrid to halt new inoculations and threatened supplies across Spain, newspaper El Mundo quoted a leaked official document as saying.

With stocks dwindling and new infections near record levels, regional authorities in Madrid have stopped vaccinating new people and are using their remaining supplies to administer second shots to those who have already received a first jab.

Facing criticism from some regions, the central government pointed the finger at Brussels for the supply problems in a draft agenda for a summit of regional health chiefs due to be held later on Thursday.

“It is the European Union that negotiates and signs the contracts, that is in charge of tracking them and making sure they are correctly fulfilled,” the document read, according to El Mundo.

The EU’s vaccination programme, already lagging behind Britain, Israel and the United States, has hit further snags in the past week as pharmaceutical companies Pfizer and AstraZeneca announced planned deliveries would be severely delayed.

Meanwhile, the number of Spaniards willing to receive a shot as soon as it becomes available has risen to nearly 73% from around 40% a month ago, according to an official poll by the Centre for Sociological Studies (CIS).

Editorials published on Thursday in conservative-leading El Mundo and left-wing El Pais, Spain’s two biggest newspapers, criticised the bloc’s handling of the vaccine program.

“Compared with the action of other executives, the EU has been slow to act and signed contracts (with suppliers) later, which is now proving to be a problem,” El Pais wrote.

Data released on Wednesday showed Spain had administered some 1.4 million doses, about 78% of its current stocks.

Spain’s cumulative infections now total more than 2.7 million and the death toll is more than 57,000.
  #29116  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 4,757
Groaned at 705 Times in 477 Posts
Thanked 4,708 Times in 2,488 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1354794491807465472

Last edited by JackieH; 28.01.2021 at 21:42.
  #29117  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:27
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,373
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1354794491807465472
I would take councils advise rather than rely on what David says, been there done that.
  #29118  
Old 28.01.2021, 21:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,875
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I would take councils advise rather than rely on what David says, been there done that.
Given the lack of knowledge of the full terms used, the definitions and the jurisdiction there is no way any 3rd party can make definitive conclusions.
The following 2 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #29119  
Old 28.01.2021, 22:18
Dinivan's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 207
Groaned at 35 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 254 Times in 132 Posts
Dinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So the EU is implementing its new set of rules allowing blocking of exports if wished by a nation https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-vaccine-plant

Will be interesting to see if this is actually carried out though. If the EU were really to stop vaccines the UK has a contract for and simply decide it will use those itself I would imagine it would have an astonishing effect on how people viewed Europe from inside the UK. Having a a few policies that people disagree with, ok so life goes on. Stopping vaccines which will save people's lives so they can use them themselves by ignoring a contractual agreement, I mean, wow.
Do you think anyone in the EU cares anymore about what Britons think? They're out. They're no longer EU citizens.

The EU position is very reasonable. AZ said it was going to do its best to deliver a certain amount of jabs. Then they say they're gonna deliver !75%! fewer vaccines, and they blame it on 'bad luck', literally. Fair enough the EU says, but have they really done their best to meet their contract?

In particular, has AZ shipped vaccines abroad? And also, did the AZ contract signed with the EU include the UK plants which were indeed partly financed by the EU?

It's a very reasonable request to want answers to those questions.
This user would like to thank Dinivan for this useful post:
This user groans at Dinivan for this post:
  #29120  
Old 28.01.2021, 22:51
Dinivan's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 207
Groaned at 35 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 254 Times in 132 Posts
Dinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeableDinivan is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
So the EU is implementing its new set of rules allowing blocking of exports if wished by a nation https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-vaccine-plant

Will be interesting to see if this is actually carried out though. If the EU were really to stop vaccines the UK has a contract for and simply decide it will use those itself I would imagine it would have an astonishing effect on how people viewed Europe from inside the UK. Having a a few policies that people disagree with, ok so life goes on. Stopping vaccines which will save people's lives so they can use them themselves by ignoring a contractual agreement, I mean, wow.
I think it will. Switzerland will be spared because Moderna is produced here. The EU has wide powers in case of a major crisis, and some governments want the EU to invoke article 122 (?) to go even further than implement export restrictions and intervene the suppliers or even force them to share their patents with other labs, like BioNTech has done with Sanofi in partnership.

Could be bad for the UK especially if there's a new strain, as the AstraZeneca vaccine can't be easily adapted unlike BioNTech / Moderna and soon Curevac which is also promising

In other news, apparently AZ is now willing to publish most of the contract. It is also backtracking from its claim, and it may be able to supply the 80 million jabs (or close to) that it had early promised
This user would like to thank Dinivan for this useful post:
Closed Thread

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 07:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 14:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 19:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 21:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 11:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0