The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Strangely enough, only about 10 days ago, in the House of Commons- and in response to an MP from NI complaining that they are having difficulties with keeping shelves filled and supply chains working- Johnson said he would have no hesitation in triggering art. 16 himself.

What's §16? Got a link, preferably one that works?

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I am an EU citizen

Bummer.

Tom

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Bummer. Tom

Lekker.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	What's §16? Got a link, preferably one that works?

Here are a couple of explanations


https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/northern-...cine-supplies/

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...-no-quick-fix/

[JackieH]

and another, posts crossed

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eland-protocol

[JackieH]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Lekker.

oh my, self-confessed a*se lickers

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	I don't think so, contrary to the reputational damage that the EU has done to itself. They have not done anything right in the Covid crisis and have not shown any leadership. I find it rather shocking.

Probably because organising and delivering healthcare is the responsibility of national governments, the EU has no leadership role.

[Castro]

	Quote:	marton
	Probably because organising and delivering healthcare is the responsibility of national governments, the EU has no leadership role.

They are useful for procurement but they obviously need to get better at it.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	marton
	@TonyClifton Actually, the opposite the EU is not doing more for the Brexit cause. The EU is demonstrating that the UK has moved to a cold and lonely place with no strong allies and powerless to maintain vaccine supplies outside of the warm arms of the EU.

LOL!

Aside from generally having far more vaccine, far more on order and the only properly functioning AZ plants (two of them in the UK at Keele and Oxford and fill and finish in Wrexham), which is the only vaccine at present that can be delivered at speed.

Apart from all that the UK is in a terrible place!

Actually... even that isn't true... Novovax will also be manufactured in the UK (Middlesbrough) again the uk have made a big early order so this situation isn't going to end any time soon.

Incidentally, you know Von der Leyen is in trouble when the people briefing against her are her own diplomats and other pro-European leaders. This is very much not "the usual suspects". There's a good chance she doesn't survive this scandal.

On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend.

If I was Boris I'd just go direct to Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc. to work out how we should best help after the uk (and probably Ireland) is in a safe space (given we should have spare vaccine) and just ignore her. We need to demonstrate that we are a helpful and neighbourly.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Then Brussel shouldn't have pushed otherwise. They lost credibility. Pointing fingers at V4 who knew that they couldn't rely on a mamoth cooperation. The covid patients CZ took from Germany and France were also negotiated outside of the EU. The help CZ got during the worst spread mainly came from NATO. Whoever came, those army doctors, though, were mainly learning how to deal with mass medical emergency. And learned 3 Czech words. If EU isn't reliable in the time of crisis, it will seem even less useful in other matters.

Evidence seems to point out that EU has done something for CZ in time of crisis. Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU is disingenuous. For instance.
https://www.politico.eu/article/comm...zech-republic/

Who pointed fingers at who? In which occasions? In general? Or because of the regress in their justice systems? Do you know why EU is pointing fingers at a couple of these countries? Not that I personally mind regional cooperation but please inform yourself better before making wild accusations.

	Quote:	Castro
	Any EU member state is able to invoke national emergency protocols to approve and import any vaccine it likes. The more nimble ones such as Hungary already started trials on the Russian Sputnik vaccine last year and was also in talks with Israel and China. The EU is a nice comfort blanket but for a national health emergency it might be best to go it alone.

So there's no dictatorship from EU, which I would have said it's rather a good thing?
Hu has received 6k Russian vaccines for testing. Russian vaccines will not be used for mass vaccination in Hungary. They decided that because apparently Russia has inadequate production capacity. Don't worry, they'll rely on EU for mass vaccination because EU has negotiated with 6 companies and each country will access a number of these vaccines.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	LOL! Aside from generally having far more vaccine, far more on order and the only properly functioning AZ plants (two of them in the UK at Keele and Oxford and fill and finish in Wrexham), which is the only vaccine at present that can be delivered at speed. Apart from all that the UK is in a terrible place! Actually... even that isn't true... Novovax will also be manufactured in the UK (Middlesbrough) again the uk have made a big early order so this situation isn't going to end any time soon. Incidentally, you know Von der Leyen is in trouble when the people briefing against her are her own diplomats and other pro-European leaders. This is very much not "the usual suspects". There's a good chance she doesn't survive this scandal.

I doubt she will. She shouldn't.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend. .

Does he? We must have read a different thread.

Btw, could you please point out those critics of von der Leyen? Apart from the "usual suspects".

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU...

Nobody says that. Read again.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Dinivan
	It's not a matter of when an order was placed, but of what was contractually agreed on. Your example equating life saving vaccines to an amazon package is ridiculous You don't understand. The orders have already been placed by those who want them. AZ has to recoup the investment, if the EU doesn't buy them nobody else will.

But it's only because the order is for vaccines that folk are getting wound up. If it were for pretty much any other product then there wouldn't be this kerfuffle. So no, it's ridiculous. No-one knows exactly what is in the contract. All we do know is that the UK got in first, supplied enough £ so that AZ could get additional lines in place and sort out supply chain glitches before it got critical. Which is standard practice for pharma production AFAIK.

It's you who doesn't understand.

	Quote:	marton
	@TonyClifton Actually, the opposite the EU is not doing more for the Brexit cause. The EU is demonstrating that the UK has moved to a cold and lonely place with no strong allies and powerless to maintain vaccine supplies outside of the warm arms of the EU.

Er... nope. In this case the EU has weakened its position dreadfully. I'm no Brexit fan but in any situation you don't think is ideal there will still be the odd moment when it's ok. The EU has shown itself (albeit momentarily) to be petty with those at the top making decisions without consulting experts and taking a reasonable approach. The EU commission pissed almost everyone off, did a swift u-turn that makes it look like a complete fool and... passed power to the UK as a consequence.

	Quote:	Castro
	AstraZeneca are much more than a vaccines company and their 2nd biggest market after the USA is still the EU. The reputational damage to them will be huge if CEO Pascal Soriot doesn't sort this out to everyone's satisfaction.

No it won't.

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend.

And the winner of this week's most idiotic statement award goes to...

Boris is a self-serving duplicitous shitbag who has manouvered himself into a position of power through cronyism and lies and who surrounds himself with additional self-serving shitbags who I wouldn't trust to run a bath.

It is a total PITA not being in the EU any more. I'll grant you that.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Nobody says that. Read again.

Then what did you mean by "The help CZ got... mainly came from NATO"?

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Then what did you mean by "The help CZ got... mainly came from NATO"?

She meant exactly that, until she didn’t anymore......it’s obvious innit!

If there was a world championship for backpedaling I know who would take the gold medal.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Does he? We must have read a different thread. Btw, could you please point out those critics of von der Leyen? Apart from the "usual suspects".

Tony Blair

[3Wishes]

	Quote:	greenmount
	...Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU is disingenuous...

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Nobody says that. Read again.

Okay, I re-read and I'll highlight your text in bold and red.

	Quote:	MusicChick
	Then Brussel shouldn't have pushed otherwise. They lost credibility. Pointing fingers at V4 who knew that they couldn't rely on a mamoth cooperation. The covid patients CZ took from Germany and France were also negotiated outside of the EU. The help CZ got during the worst spread mainly came from NATO. Whoever came, those army doctors, though, were mainly learning how to deal with mass medical emergency. And learned 3 Czech words. If EU isn't reliable in the time of crisis, it will seem even less useful in other matters.

What did you mean, if you meant something other than how greenmount and many of us interpreted it?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Tony Blair

What has he been doing lately btw (politically)? Apart from this I haven't heard anything about him for quite some time.

[RufusB]

He's probably been profoundly grateful not to be in the firing line any longer.