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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29141  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Strangely enough, only about 10 days ago, in the House of Commons- and in response to an MP from NI complaining that they are having difficulties with keeping shelves filled and supply chains working- Johnson said he would have no hesitation in triggering art. 16 himself.
What's §16? Got a link, preferably one that works?
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  #29142  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am an EU citizen
Bummer.

Tom
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  #29143  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Bummer.

Tom
Lekker.
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  #29144  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What's §16? Got a link, preferably one that works?
Here are a couple of explanations


https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/northern-...cine-supplies/

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...-no-quick-fix/
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  #29145  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

and another, posts crossed

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...eland-protocol
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  #29146  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Lekker.
oh my, self-confessed a*se lickers

Last edited by JackieH; 30.01.2021 at 21:36.
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  #29147  
Old 30.01.2021, 13:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't think so, contrary to the reputational damage that the EU has done to itself. They have not done anything right in the Covid crisis and have not shown any leadership. I find it rather shocking.
Probably because organising and delivering healthcare is the responsibility of national governments, the EU has no leadership role.
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  #29148  
Old 30.01.2021, 15:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Probably because organising and delivering healthcare is the responsibility of national governments, the EU has no leadership role.
They are useful for procurement but they obviously need to get better at it.
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  #29149  
Old 30.01.2021, 20:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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@TonyClifton

Actually, the opposite the EU is not doing more for the Brexit cause.
The EU is demonstrating that the UK has moved to a cold and lonely place with no strong allies and powerless to maintain vaccine supplies outside of the warm arms of the EU.
LOL!

Aside from generally having far more vaccine, far more on order and the only properly functioning AZ plants (two of them in the UK at Keele and Oxford and fill and finish in Wrexham), which is the only vaccine at present that can be delivered at speed.

Apart from all that the UK is in a terrible place!

Actually... even that isn't true... Novovax will also be manufactured in the UK (Middlesbrough) again the uk have made a big early order so this situation isn't going to end any time soon.

Incidentally, you know Von der Leyen is in trouble when the people briefing against her are her own diplomats and other pro-European leaders. This is very much not "the usual suspects". There's a good chance she doesn't survive this scandal.

On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend.

If I was Boris I'd just go direct to Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc. to work out how we should best help after the uk (and probably Ireland) is in a safe space (given we should have spare vaccine) and just ignore her. We need to demonstrate that we are a helpful and neighbourly.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 30.01.2021 at 21:35.
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  #29150  
Old 31.01.2021, 06:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Then Brussel shouldn't have pushed otherwise. They lost credibility. Pointing fingers at V4 who knew that they couldn't rely on a mamoth cooperation. The covid patients CZ took from Germany and France were also negotiated outside of the EU. The help CZ got during the worst spread mainly came from NATO. Whoever came, those army doctors, though, were mainly learning how to deal with mass medical emergency. And learned 3 Czech words. If EU isn't reliable in the time of crisis, it will seem even less useful in other matters.
Evidence seems to point out that EU has done something for CZ in time of crisis. Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU is disingenuous. For instance.
https://www.politico.eu/article/comm...zech-republic/

Who pointed fingers at who? In which occasions? In general? Or because of the regress in their justice systems? Do you know why EU is pointing fingers at a couple of these countries? Not that I personally mind regional cooperation but please inform yourself better before making wild accusations.

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Any EU member state is able to invoke national emergency protocols to approve and import any vaccine it likes. The more nimble ones such as Hungary already started trials on the Russian Sputnik vaccine last year and was also in talks with Israel and China. The EU is a nice comfort blanket but for a national health emergency it might be best to go it alone.
So there's no dictatorship from EU, which I would have said it's rather a good thing?
Hu has received 6k Russian vaccines for testing. Russian vaccines will not be used for mass vaccination in Hungary. They decided that because apparently Russia has inadequate production capacity. Don't worry, they'll rely on EU for mass vaccination because EU has negotiated with 6 companies and each country will access a number of these vaccines.

Last edited by greenmount; 31.01.2021 at 06:51.
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  #29151  
Old 31.01.2021, 07:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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LOL!

Aside from generally having far more vaccine, far more on order and the only properly functioning AZ plants (two of them in the UK at Keele and Oxford and fill and finish in Wrexham), which is the only vaccine at present that can be delivered at speed.

Apart from all that the UK is in a terrible place!

Actually... even that isn't true... Novovax will also be manufactured in the UK (Middlesbrough) again the uk have made a big early order so this situation isn't going to end any time soon.

Incidentally, you know Von der Leyen is in trouble when the people briefing against her are her own diplomats and other pro-European leaders. This is very much not "the usual suspects". There's a good chance she doesn't survive this scandal.
I doubt she will. She shouldn't.
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  #29152  
Old 31.01.2021, 07:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend.
.
Does he? We must have read a different thread.

Btw, could you please point out those critics of von der Leyen? Apart from the "usual suspects".
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  #29153  
Old 31.01.2021, 08:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU...
Nobody says that. Read again.
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  #29154  
Old 31.01.2021, 10:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's not a matter of when an order was placed, but of what was contractually agreed on. Your example equating life saving vaccines to an amazon package is ridiculous

You don't understand. The orders have already been placed by those who want them. AZ has to recoup the investment, if the EU doesn't buy them nobody else will.
But it's only because the order is for vaccines that folk are getting wound up. If it were for pretty much any other product then there wouldn't be this kerfuffle. So no, it's ridiculous. No-one knows exactly what is in the contract. All we do know is that the UK got in first, supplied enough £ so that AZ could get additional lines in place and sort out supply chain glitches before it got critical. Which is standard practice for pharma production AFAIK.

It's you who doesn't understand.

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@TonyClifton

Actually, the opposite the EU is not doing more for the Brexit cause.
The EU is demonstrating that the UK has moved to a cold and lonely place with no strong allies and powerless to maintain vaccine supplies outside of the warm arms of the EU.
Er... nope. In this case the EU has weakened its position dreadfully. I'm no Brexit fan but in any situation you don't think is ideal there will still be the odd moment when it's ok. The EU has shown itself (albeit momentarily) to be petty with those at the top making decisions without consulting experts and taking a reasonable approach. The EU commission pissed almost everyone off, did a swift u-turn that makes it look like a complete fool and... passed power to the UK as a consequence.

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AstraZeneca are much more than a vaccines company and their 2nd biggest market after the USA is still the EU. The reputational damage to them will be huge if CEO Pascal Soriot doesn't sort this out to everyone's satisfaction.
No it won't.

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On the other hand Boris is getting the praise of lefty Europhile teacher RufusB - not a natural friend.



And the winner of this week's most idiotic statement award goes to...

Boris is a self-serving duplicitous shitbag who has manouvered himself into a position of power through cronyism and lies and who surrounds himself with additional self-serving shitbags who I wouldn't trust to run a bath.

It is a total PITA not being in the EU any more. I'll grant you that.
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  #29155  
Old 31.01.2021, 10:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Nobody says that. Read again.
Then what did you mean by "The help CZ got... mainly came from NATO"?
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  #29156  
Old 31.01.2021, 11:20
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Then what did you mean by "The help CZ got... mainly came from NATO"?
She meant exactly that, until she didn’t anymore......it’s obvious innit!

If there was a world championship for backpedaling I know who would take the gold medal.
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  #29157  
Old 31.01.2021, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Does he? We must have read a different thread.

Btw, could you please point out those critics of von der Leyen? Apart from the "usual suspects".
Tony Blair
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  #29158  
Old 31.01.2021, 14:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...Saying that the help came from Nato and not from EU is disingenuous...
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Nobody says that. Read again.
Okay, I re-read and I'll highlight your text in bold and red.

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Then Brussel shouldn't have pushed otherwise. They lost credibility. Pointing fingers at V4 who knew that they couldn't rely on a mamoth cooperation. The covid patients CZ took from Germany and France were also negotiated outside of the EU. The help CZ got during the worst spread mainly came from NATO. Whoever came, those army doctors, though, were mainly learning how to deal with mass medical emergency. And learned 3 Czech words. If EU isn't reliable in the time of crisis, it will seem even less useful in other matters.
What did you mean, if you meant something other than how greenmount and many of us interpreted it?
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  #29159  
Old 31.01.2021, 17:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Tony Blair
What has he been doing lately btw (politically)? Apart from this I haven't heard anything about him for quite some time.

Last edited by greenmount; 31.01.2021 at 17:21.
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  #29160  
Old 31.01.2021, 19:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

He's probably been profoundly grateful not to be in the firing line any longer.

Last edited by RufusB; 01.02.2021 at 11:37.
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