The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	RufusB
	Er... nope. In this case the EU has weakened its position dreadfully. I'm no Brexit fan but in any situation you don't think is ideal there will still be the odd moment when it's ok. The EU has shown itself (albeit momentarily) to be petty with those at the top making decisions without consulting experts and taking a reasonable approach. The EU commission pissed almost everyone off, did a swift u-turn that makes it look like a complete fool and... passed power to the UK as a consequence.

The UK was lucky that the EU made this U-turn but luck is not a reliable long-term strategy.

When you wrote "The EU commission pissed almost everyone off" then who do you mean by "everyone", outside of Europe who commented?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Does he? We must have read a different thread. Btw, could you please point out those critics of von der Leyen? Apart from the "usual suspects".

Most of the northern European media, Ms von der Leyen is taking a kicking in her native Germany. Japan, Canada and South Korea are also angry at EU threats to restrict vaccine exports. It's a complete shambles. Also, the more information that comes out it sounds as if the EU don't even have a legal position against AstraZeneca either.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	greenmount
	What has he been doing lately btw (politically)? Apart from this I haven't heard anything about him for quite some time.

A lot basically. His org, the Tony Blair Foundation (I think its that) have been doing stuff around international middle east peace (ironic) and he was big on the Corona stuff incredibly. He's not in the headlines but he's a big player still. Kind of like Mandleson - not there, but there.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	marton
	The UK was lucky that the EU made this U-turn but luck is not a reliable long-term strategy. When you wrote "The EU commission pissed almost everyone off" then who do you mean by "everyone", outside of Europe who commented?

Why lucky? It wasn't going to affect the supply chain of vaccines into mainland UK. The EU u-turn was, politically (and arguably morally, but meh, politicians) the only option if there wasn't going to be some horrid bureaucratic nightmare.

My usage of "almost everyone" was deliberate hyperbolic-idiom-for-effect based on what I've read about the reactions, both within the EU commission, and from UK leaders.

Key word "almost".
No, in this instance I didn't get their names/addresses.

[JackieH]

There is however no denying that Johnson himself, 2 weeks earlier, said he would have no hesitation in invoking art 16 if supply chains to NI were affected.

2 wrongs do not make a right, for sure. But it is there for all to see.

[TonyClifton]

The events of the past week have really sorted the wheat from the chaff. Those who accept that EU Commission has made a royal cock-up, and those (fortunately few) zealots still trying to defend/deflect their actions

[JackieH]

Not at all- it is totally possible to accept the EU made a mistake (and trying to understand the background and why) - and at the same time not turning to nationalistic syringe waving- and very destructive vaccine nationalism.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Not at all- it is totally possible to accept the EU made a mistake (and trying to understand the background and why) - and at the same time not turning to nationalistic syringe waving- and very destructive vaccine nationalism.

EU played the bully, they thought they could get away with it. All to cover up their poor negotiating & procurement programme.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	JackieH
	There is however no denying that Johnson himself, 2 weeks earlier, said he would have no hesitation in invoking art 16 if supply chains to NI were affected. 2 wrongs do not make a right, for sure. But it is there for all to see.

Absolutely, but one would hope he would attempt it with a little more integrity.

[Polymath]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	The events of the past week have really sorted the wheat from the chaff. Those who accept that EU Commission has made a royal cock-up, and those (fortunately few) zealots still trying to defend/deflect their actions

Even this pro-EU reporter from the Irish Times is acknowledging the cock-up(s).

	Quote:
	This columnist has, I hope, impeccable pro-EU credentials. I have yielded to no one in my anti-Brexit polemics. So I survey the damage the EU is doing to itself with great sadness. The vaccine war has, like no other event, united Britain against Brussels. And I worry about yet more inadequacy in the face of crisis. The EU flailed around – failed – during the Great Financial Crisis, causing harm to countries like Greece and Ireland. Fiscal austerity was a mistake, compounded by monetary errors from the ECB. It was quite a moment to see the FT earlier this year apologise for its role in calling for austerity a decade ago. EU failure in the wake of yet another crisis will have consequences. And failure isn’t just about vaccines. The EU made much last year of its €750 billion fiscal boost to economies laid low by the pandemic. Relative to anything the US is doing, this is too small. Relative to anything it should be doing, it is too small. Already, there are mutterings about how the deployment of the cash is too slow.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...n-eu-1.4472302

Plucked from the comments below the article:

	Quote:
	As an impeccably pro EU journalist it is heartening to see the scales finally fall from your eyes Mr Johns. Perhaps you can also acknowledge that the great unwashed in the UK were not so daft after all in voting for Brexit now the EU has been shown up for what it is i.e. a dumping ground for failed domestic politicians who are happy to sell out their country for a fat salary and an easy life.

	Quote:
	Embarrassing and the only time I can remember the Unionists and Sinn Fein speaking with one voice. EU bureaucracy is suffocating and aimed at keeping people in Public Sector jobs and off the dole queues, while protecting vested interest. You are 4 times more likely to get a jab in the North than the South. That's literally a killer fact. The UK will be out of lock down and getting back to normal by May. That won't happen here till just before Christmas, which will finish some businesses, further damage mental health and hit public finances. But as long as the bureaucrats in Brussels are cosy, we are all OK.

[Talk to you later]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	EU played the bully, they thought they could get away with it. All to cover up their poor negotiating & procurement programme.

Von der Leyen, no positive or negative crit on her personally, but every time I see her image, I feel like she is a cyborg sent by Skynet

[SponPlague]

Maybe someone should have told the EU’s press office, that if you want to calm thing down in Ireland, saying “the only one who doesn’t make mistakes is the Pope” is a tad, erm, risky?

[SponPlague]

Ouch! And this before Friday. Guns a-blazing...

https://www.spiegel.de/international...9-b76e64701802

[greenmount]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Most of the northern European media, Ms von der Leyen is taking a kicking in her native Germany. Japan, Canada and South Korea are also angry at EU threats to restrict vaccine exports. It's a complete shambles. Also, the more information that comes out it sounds as if the EU don't even have a legal position against AstraZeneca either.

Links?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Links?

for example: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ions-1.4472449

but in many newspapers today.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	for example: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ions-1.4472449 but in many newspapers today.

Yeah, it was expected. The whole vaccines affair is a pita. On the one hand you have EU countries crying they don't have sufficient vaccines, on the other hand you have the rest of the world crying against EU "vaccine protectionism".

[Polymath]

	Quote:	SponPlague
	Ouch! And this before Friday. Guns a-blazing... https://www.spiegel.de/international...9-b76e64701802

It looks like she's finished. She can hardly use this excuse this time.

	Quote:
	Even the multimillion-euro consultancy contracts that had been signed illegally did no damage to von der Leyen. She launched an internal investigation and meted out punishment to individual Defense Ministry staff members, but ultimately rejected all personal responsibility with the memorable excuse that the mistakes had taken place "far below my level."

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Polymath
	It looks like she's finished. She can hardly use this excuse this time.

She's worse than Trump. The only excuse we have as EU citizens is that nobody voted for her.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	She's worse than Trump. The only excuse we have as EU citizens is that nobody voted for her.

She was critical to border closures in spring 2020, when states had to act on their own, EU lagging behind. Apparently closures disturb citizens' lives. Maybe she thinks vaccinating disturbs citizens' lives.

Czech independent press did not support her getting in the office, there was a big upheaval.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Yeah, it was expected. The whole vaccines affair is a pita. On the one hand you have EU countries crying they don't have sufficient vaccines, on the other hand you have the rest of the world crying against EU "vaccine protectionism".

They've not really been protectionist. They've threatened to be, temporarily imposed S16 then instantly withdrew it.