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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29181  
Old 01.02.2021, 22:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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She's worse than Trump. The only excuse we have as EU citizens is that nobody voted for her.
He was a democratically elected leader playing the dictator.

She's a dictator playing a democratically elected leader.
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  #29182  
Old 01.02.2021, 22:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It looks like she's finished. She can hardly use this excuse this time.
I read that her cell got wiped clean of some critical data.
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  #29183  
Old 01.02.2021, 22:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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He was a democratically elected leader playing the dictator.
The electoral collage is hardly a democratic system. His opponent received more popular support

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She's a dictator playing a democratically elected leader.
President von der Leyen was appointed by national leaders and elected by the European Parliament.
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  #29184  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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President von der Leyen was appointed by national leaders and elected by the European Parliament.
I think the problem with the EU Commission is that it isn't accountable to anyone. There's no opposition and there's no real way of removing those in power there. Even the circumstances behind President von der Leyen's appointment were very murky indeed.

Perhaps it would be better for everyone if they could only rewind the clock to when a drunk was running the show
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  #29185  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think the problem with the EU Commission is that it isn't accountable to anyone. There's no opposition and there's no real way of removing those in power there.
Back to school. You may be entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
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  #29186  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think the problem with the EU Commission is that it isn't accountable to anyone. There's no opposition and there's no real way of removing those in power there. Even the circumstances behind President von der Leyen's appointment were very murky indeed.

Perhaps it would be better for everyone if they could only rewind the clock to when a drunk was running the show
The Treaty establishing the European Community provides in Article 160 that: "If any member of the Commission no longer fulfills the conditions required for the performance of his duties, or if he has been guilty of serious misconduct, the Court of Justice may, on application by the Council or Commission, compulsorily retire him."
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  #29187  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Back to school. You may be entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
Remind me again of who stands in opposition to the elected EU Commission?

That's the problem they're not accountable to any voters.
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  #29188  
Old 01.02.2021, 23:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The Council and the Parliament.

I’m sure if you scroll back a few hundred pages of this BREXIT thread you can find all the information you obviously are missing.
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  #29189  
Old 02.02.2021, 01:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Remind me again of who stands in opposition to the elected EU Commission?

That's the problem they're not accountable to any voters.
The same people as when you elect the Queen, the House of Lords, the changes to the magic constitution and the Queen’s prerogative.
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  #29190  
Old 02.02.2021, 01:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The electoral collage is hardly a democratic system. His opponent received more popular support



President von der Leyen was appointed by national leaders and elected by the European Parliament.
He didn't choose the system - it's pretty crap agreed.

Re the second point: Although I accept it's to an extent subjective, I don't think multi-tier "democracy" is at all acceptable. She has very significant executive power and there is no good reason, other than fear of the electorate, to not hold a direct election for the position. In reality the voter is pretty much disenfranchised. Maybe being charitable that was acceptable when the role was founded, but there's been so much mission creep and power accumulation it really isn't anymore.

Incidentally, in China, people do actually vote at very local level, these local representatives then vote for the next level up and so on until you get to President Xi. So if you think VdL is democratically elected then President Xi isn't far off.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 02.02.2021 at 03:29.
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  #29191  
Old 02.02.2021, 02:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The same people as when you elect the Queen, the House of Lords, the changes to the magic constitution and the Queen’s prerogative.
Can't really argue with that.
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  #29192  
Old 02.02.2021, 08:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The same people as when you elect the Queen, the House of Lords, the changes to the magic constitution and the Queen’s prerogative.
Or the seven gnomes in this country. Their ‘election’ is all about backroom deals and “understandings”. Hardly Democratic when the candidates are pre-selected by four political parties.

Now can we get back to Brexit? Noting that the UK Prime Minister isn’t Democratically elected either.
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  #29193  
Old 02.02.2021, 09:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Ursula von der Leyen (German) = Lying Ursula (English).

Tom
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  #29194  
Old 02.02.2021, 09:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Noting that the UK Prime Minister isn’t Democratically elected either.
Good point. I can still remember how surprised we all were when Boris Johnson was appointed as prime minister after the Tories won the election. The guy really came out of nowhere!
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  #29195  
Old 02.02.2021, 09:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Council and the Parliament.

I’m sure if you scroll back a few hundred pages of this BREXIT thread you can find all the information you obviously are missing.
Either you can continue to convince yourself that this is the case, or open your eyes and realise the damage that this democratic deficit is causing. The EU Commission is a bureaucratic government that is not directly elected by the peoples of the 27 EU states. That it is "nominated" by the EU Council and "endorsed" by the EU Parliament doesn't make it accountable to voters. People are elected to power when their name appear on a ballot paper.
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  #29196  
Old 02.02.2021, 09:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Or the seven gnomes in this country. Their ‘election’ is all about backroom deals and “understandings”. Hardly Democratic when the candidates are pre-selected by four political parties.

Now can we get back to Brexit? Noting that the UK Prime Minister isn’t Democratically elected either.
When we have sausages still demonstrate such a basic lack of knowledge and repeating the same old discredited nonsense ad infinitum, it hardly a discussion or at least not one to be taken seriously.
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  #29197  
Old 02.02.2021, 10:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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She was critical to border closures in spring 2020, when states had to act on their own, EU lagging behind. Apparently closures disturb citizens' lives. <snip>
Death. You forgot death. That disturbs citizens' lives too.
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  #29198  
Old 02.02.2021, 10:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Death. You forgot death. That disturbs citizens' lives too.
The irony being that in some countries the virus has spread mainly because people went to holidays (in some other threads the "sacrosanct" right of holiday-ing during a pandemic seemed to be acidly defended btw) and loosened their anti-corona measures and that has nothing to do with von der Leyen.
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  #29199  
Old 02.02.2021, 10:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The irony being that in some countries the virus has spread mainly because people went to holidays (in some other threads the "sacrosanct" right of holiday-ing during a pandemic seemed to be acidly defended btw) and loosened their anti-corona measures and that has nothing to do with von der Leyen.
you're blaming the people who travelled? If you don't block it, some will do it. Greece, UAE, they have some nice inbound cases because a) they did not block inbound tourists and b) they wanted some of that tourist $$$.

there are also people who live out of their countries and return home to visit family. We probably have some of those people here.

It's also worth noting that the EU is no longer really capable to close and/or monitor border crossings between member states. The facilities and staff are simply no longer there.
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  #29200  
Old 02.02.2021, 10:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's also worth noting that the EU is no longer really capable to close and/or monitor border crossings between member states. The facilities and staff are simply no longer there.
Close they certainly can still do - was well shown back in April. OK, you could walk through the right place (as you can any land border unless it is fenced along its entire length) but by any form of motorised transport it was pretty well shut. The Austrians even went to far as to fence off the Rheindamm bike path here.

Monitoring/controlling is another matter.
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