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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29201  
Old 02.02.2021, 10:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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you're blaming the people who travelled? .
Among others or other things, yes.
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  #29202  
Old 02.02.2021, 11:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It really is all sadly turning to cra#p
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...afety-concerns on animal and food products arriving into Belfast and Larne ports have been suspended amid fears over the safety of staff, Northern Ireland’s agriculture ministry has said.

The decision came after Mid and East Antrim borough council agreed on Monday night to remove 12 of its staff at Larne port with immediate effect, following an “upsurge in sinister and menacing behaviour in recent weeks”.
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  #29203  
Old 02.02.2021, 11:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Either you can continue to convince yourself that this is the case, or open your eyes and realise the damage that this democratic deficit is causing. The EU Commission is a bureaucratic government that is not directly elected by the peoples of the 27 EU states. That it is "nominated" by the EU Council and "endorsed" by the EU Parliament doesn't make it accountable to voters. People are elected to power when their name appear on a ballot paper.
You mean in the same way as in UK the Government Ministers and senior civil servants are elected, oh! wait a minute!.....
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  #29204  
Old 02.02.2021, 11:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Death. You forgot death. That disturbs citizens' lives too.
I bet there will be overpaid consultant firms to help with it.
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  #29205  
Old 02.02.2021, 19:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Here's a very interesting article in Le Temps, an interview to a Brussels commercial lawyer, the place where any dispute between AZ and the EU would have to be resolved.

An interesting point out of many:

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Quant à elle, l’UE estime à juste titre que la société a l’obligation d’utiliser tous ses sites de production, y compris ceux basés au Royaume-Uni. Le contrat est clair sur ce point. En outre, la société a expressément convenu qu’il n’y avait aucun obstacle à réaliser les objectifs prévus. La position du fabriquant est dès lors juridiquement trés faible.
Jean Russotto, avocat: «Sur les vaccins, AstraZeneca peut invoquer des retards de livraison sans rompre son contrat avec l’UE»
https://www.letemps.ch/node/1245293

I wonder if some issues arising from this dispute come from the fact that some Britons want to apply common law and UK courts where there's none involved
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  #29206  
Old 02.02.2021, 19:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Here's a very interesting article in Le Temps, an interview to a Brussels commercial lawyer, the place where any dispute between AZ and the EU would have to be resolved.

An interesting point out of many:



Jean Russotto, avocat: «Sur les vaccins, AstraZeneca peut invoquer des retards de livraison sans rompre son contrat avec l’UE»
https://www.letemps.ch/node/1245293

I wonder if some issues arising from this dispute come from the fact that some Britons want to apply common law and UK courts where there's none involved
Place of despite should be in the contract, I cant believe a UK company would not put UK law as the binding jurisdiction. Thats assuming the contract was with the UK parent & not a subsidiary that could be liquidated at will.
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  #29207  
Old 02.02.2021, 20:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Place of despite should be in the contract, I cant believe a UK company would not put UK law as the binding jurisdiction. Thats assuming the contract was with the UK parent & not a subsidiary that could be liquidated at will.
There are at least two parties to any contract, and the EU is not a UK company... Who knows who drew up the contract? Vendor or purchaser?
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  #29208  
Old 02.02.2021, 20:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Place of despite should be in the contract, I cant believe a UK company would not put UK law as the binding jurisdiction. Thats assuming the contract was with the UK parent & not a subsidiary that could be liquidated at will.
Of course it is written in the contract. Point 18.4 "this agreement shall be governed by the laws of Belgium". Were it not for Brexit, the place of choice would probably have been the UK
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  #29209  
Old 02.02.2021, 20:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course it is written in the contract. Point 18.4 "this agreement shall be governed by the laws of Belgium". Were it not for Brexit, the place of choice would probably have been the UK
The Astra Zeneca company party to the contract is in Sweden so unlikely the place of choice would probably have been the UK.
Para 18.5b says the courts in Brussels have jurisdiction.
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  #29210  
Old 02.02.2021, 21:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

It was always clear to most that the UK/NI border situation with Ireland/EU was going to be a real problem. It is an impossible situation and has no solution either.

Friends in NI always said that the border issue would really become dangerous due to drugs, mafia and money laundering.

Did any of you watch Panorama last night about the mafia/drugs/money laundering links with boxing? Barry McGuigan was very open and brave, for sure.
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  #29211  
Old 02.02.2021, 21:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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There are at least two parties to any contract, and the EU is not a UK company... Who knows who drew up the contract? Vendor or purchaser?
Well they took a long time to sign so AZ will know whats in it . Only a couple of percent strengthen of the GBP & 1 Will win my bet on 21st August
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  #29212  
Old 03.02.2021, 12:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Oven-ready, he said- and told NI there would be no checks whatsoever, and if they get forms to fill in to import/export from NI to UK and vice-versa- to just send him the forms so he could put them in the bin himself ...and now ?!?

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has asked for an extension until 2023 of a grace period on checks that would be conducted on trade moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom to soften the Brexit impact on the province, the BBC reported.

Political editor Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Secretary Michael Gove had written to the European Commission's vice president, Maros Sefcovic, to ask for urgent political solutions.

As part of the Brexit divorce deal, the two sides agreed a three-month grace period on checks on food goods being moved by supermarkets and some wholesale groups from Britain to Northern Ireland, to ease the impact of the post-Brexit new rules.
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  #29213  
Old 03.02.2021, 15:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And for the second time in the House of Commons, Johnson made the threat to use Art. 16- which he already made mid january - way before Ursula Van der Leyen did- under pressure from Paisley Jnr and Arlene Foster. Anyone with half a braincell could see the border situation with UK/NI and Ireland/EU- was just impossible to manage, and that promises made by Johnson that all paperworkd required could just be binned- was utter nonsense.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/bre...52?jwsource=cl
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  #29214  
Old 03.02.2021, 16:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What I can’t believe is that the remain campaign didn’t make the NI border a real issue during the referendum. I don’t think I even remember hearing it mentioned. It’s almost as if everyone only realised afterwards that it was an impossible situation to solve!
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  #29215  
Old 03.02.2021, 16:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What I can’t believe is that the remain campaign didn’t make the NI border a real issue during the referendum. I don’t think I even remember hearing it mentioned. It’s almost as if everyone only realised afterwards that it was an impossible situation to solve!
They were not the brightest pencils in the box, probably never been to Ireland or have any idea what relevance it would have been even if mentioned.
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  #29216  
Old 03.02.2021, 17:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Oven-ready, he said-
It was the Withdrawal Agreement that was described as "oven ready". This was duly signed and became law on Jan 31 2020, a few weeks after the election.

The trade deal, by contrast, was nowhere near being finalised at the time of the 2019 election, as I'm sure you know, and was very clearly NOT what was being referred to. The trade deal was agreed just before Christmas 2020, so obviously this was not the agreement being described as ready for signing.
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  #29217  
Old 03.02.2021, 17:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You mean in the same way as in UK the Government Ministers and senior civil servants are elected, oh! wait a minute!.....
What? That's not the same thing at all. Not even nearly:

1) Civil servants don't have executive power and aren't party political - so that's not comparable to the Commission.

2) If you vote Conservative, you are hoping for Boris as PM and Conservative ministers. If you vote Labour then whoever is Labour leader this week and Labour ministers. Sure it would be *even more democratic* if you could individually vote in ministers in a presidential style system. Not since 1974 has a party that was defeated in the popular vote ended up picking the prime minister (and that was a minority government that only lasted a few months - before that it was 1951).

So I'd give the UK system a C+ on democracy. Functional but could be significantly better. But you don't get a vote *at all* on the Commission. That's an F. Heck - even MEPs don't really get to decide on who the Commissioner is. They just get a yes/no vote. If they want person X and that person isn't nominated by the Council of the European Union, tough.

In 2019 the EPP's favoured candidate wasn't even put forward as I understand it. (most popular group)

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 03.02.2021 at 17:59.
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  #29218  
Old 03.02.2021, 17:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What? That's not the same thing at all. Not even nearly.
Almost exactly the same thing.

And if you're talking UK democracy then start looking at the house of lords, the monarchy, the electoral system (Johnson's party got a lower share of the vote than Trump)....
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  #29219  
Old 03.02.2021, 17:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course it is written in the contract. Point 18.4 "this agreement shall be governed by the laws of Belgium". Were it not for Brexit, the place of choice would probably have been the UK
Belgium has laws?
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  #29220  
Old 03.02.2021, 20:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What? That's not the same thing at all. Not even nearly:

1) Civil servants don't have executive power and aren't party political - so that's not comparable to the Commission.. (most popular group)
The Commissioners do not represent any particular political party. They are appointed by Member States. But there are no “Conservative”,”Labour” or “Lib-Dem” Commissioners.

The Commission, meaning the civil servants reporting to their Commissioner are as apolitical as possible.

Have you been reading the daily mail again?
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