The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	Last year when a company wanted to export any animal based food products (meat, cheese, fish etc) to an EU country or CH from the UK they just had to email or fax the paperwork to an export agent at Dover, or wherever they were transiting through, and once there pick up a transfer document and the truck would be on their way. Now, the UK, as in any country exporting to the EU and CH (and although CH isn't a full member of the EU, it is in the single market) all animal based food products have to have a Veterinary test (to check for Listeria etc) before transit documents can be handed over as part of the export documents. These tests (certainly for cheese, they may differ for other products) cost £180.00 and can take a few days. If a pallet of 20 or 30 cheeses is being sent from the UK, and if one of those cheeses has the wrong paperwork, or the wrong box has been ticked, then the whole pallet is returned - and that is what has been happening last month. And it's not EU customs officials who are sending the pallets back (as was claimed by a Brexit voting customer of mine last week - just to spite the UK he said) it's the UK based export agents who cannot issue Transfer documents if the paperwork is not correct. I'm now talking to a couple of Irish cheese wholesalers about getting a pallet of cheese over from there - there are some amazing artisan cheeses from the south (some I often stocked) and of course there is no testing or extra paperwork required to get it to CH. Lucky Ireland, she's in the EU A good friend of mine is a vet in the UK (although she works with live animals) and she told me the Veterinary testing centres are overwhelmed, and there was little or no preparation last year to be ready for the extra demand. And food exporters in the main seemed to not know that testing would be required prior to exporting. But it's not just animal based products that are having trouble getting through. A large wholesaler and Cash and Carry in the UK (they supply lots of small grocery stores in the UK and export to the EU) stopped taking orders from customers on the mainland at the end of the 1st week of Jan. The reason being more than half the pallets they sent out, or were collected by customers transport agents, were returned to their warehouses as not all of the paperwork was correct. I know one company here in CH who has 2 pallets stuck there, paid for in advance and no idea when they will be cleared for export.

So it would seem it’s both a lack of resources and an inability to complete documentation...

We can expect people to improve their documentation process over time, but unless the government increases the resources for testing, it’s not going get much better...

Road haulage association reporting that exports from the UK to the EU are down 68%. Will be interesting when the official figures come out.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...8-since-brexit

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So it would seem it’s both a lack of resources and an inability to complete documentation... We can expect people to improve their documentation process over time, but unless the government increases the resources for testing, it’s not going get much better...

Why would the government be responsible for 'increases the resources for testing'

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why would the government be responsible for 'increases the resources for testing'

Because unlike you they need to stop sticking their heads in the sand and deal with the farce they have created. If only you’d coined the phrase “Local Britain”, you’d have a roaring success on your hands.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Road haulage association reporting that exports from the UK to the EU are down 68%. Will be interesting when the official figures come out. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...8-since-brexit

Gets worse

	Quote:
	From 21st April 2021 the current health certificates for UK export of animal products will not be valid and products that are currently exempt from the scope of health certificates (and therefore vet checks) will now be in scope, and will require an EHC (export health certificate) The UK Government have not published guidance on this yet, and a trade assocation is pressing Government for the new EHCs.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why would the government be responsible for 'increases the resources for testing'

The UK Government provides funding for training people to support testing.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Because unlike you they need to stop sticking their heads in the sand and deal with the farce they have created. If only you’d coined the phrase “Local Britain”, you’d have a roaring success on your hands.

This is a matter for business's to do, not something for the government.

[JackieH]

Not when it is the Government that has caused the farce.

Exports down by over 2/3rds- that is massive.

Combined with the losses due to Covid- and wait just a little more for restrictions to be fully put into action, for furlough to stop, and massive job losses to become real, add stopping rent and eviction protection.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Not when it is the Government that has caused the farce. Exports down by over 2/3rds- that is massive.

I had to google that, yes by volume rather than by value.

It will be interesting to see how the UK's trade deficit with the EU is this year, hopefully it will be reduced although your alarming statistic implied it could be worse.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I had to google that, yes by volume rather than by value. It will be interesting to see how the UK's trade deficit with the EU is this year, hopefully it will be reduced although your alarming statistic implied it could be worse.

The vast majority of high value shipments move by air. Things like vaccines, computer chips, currency, jewels.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So it would seem it’s both a lack of resources and an inability to complete documentation... We can expect people to improve their documentation process over time, but unless the government increases the resources for testing, it’s not going get much better...

Pretty much spot on. Exporters will learn how to complete paperwork correctly, and how to get (in my case) cheese tested quickly. And hopefully the government will increase capacity at testing centres, staff as well as actual labs. My anger really is that the government had over 4 years to prepare for this, but all they did was tell exporters that everything will continue as before. And that was blatantly false.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Why would the government be responsible for 'increases the resources for testing'

Oh good grief.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	Oh good grief.

You mean there should be a 'national health service' for animals?
Surely the cost & infrastructure of this should be directly paid for those who wish to export stuff like yourself, rather than expect the taxpayer to subsidise your trade!

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	You mean there should be a 'national health service' for animals? Surely the cost & infrastructure of this should be directly paid for those who wish to export stuff like yourself, rather than expect the taxpayer to subsidise your trade!

Usually, governments take measures to help and increase exports, unlike the UK where a claimed 68% fall in exports is met at best with apathy or at worst with lies.

[JackieH]

Will be dismissed by the usual because it is from the Guardian - but it says it as it is :

''British exporters sending goods into the EU have been similarly hit by border frictions. For a small exporter, the costs of the regulatory checks, filling in long and complex forms and meeting new rules around VAT can be crippling. Some businesses have simply had to stop exporting to the EU because of these costs, putting jobs at risk. New rules for shellfish and livestock have led to a dramatic drop in trade. The Road Haulage Association reports that export loads to the EU have been reduced by as much as 68% and that there are only around 10,000 of the 50,000 customs agents who are needed to cope with the flow of goods to the EU. This will have a detrimental impact on the viability of the road haulage industry, also affecting businesses that rely on imports of goods coming into the UK: six in 10 firms are already reporting delays in shipments coming from the EU.

Ministers have responded with claims that these are just “teething problems”. They are ignoring industry voices who point out that many are structural problems that will not go away within weeks, or even months, without a significant renegotiation. Little wonder that business representatives say the biggest problem they have with the government at the moment is denial of reality. Calls for meaningful engagement from the government to find solutions go unheeded, even as government trade advisers are encouraging exporters to set up separate companies inside the EU to get around export charges. Ministers simply continue to claim that Brexit is going well.

This is the inevitable cost of Brexit. People have spent their lives painstakingly building up a livelihood, only to find it wiped out almost overnight by a government that has eagerly embraced new barriers to trade. They are existing in a warped reality, where it suits neither the government nor the opposition to acknowledge the gravity of their situation. And so, even as jobs disappear and incomes plummet, there will be little political accountability for the flawed political choices that have brought us here.,,

[Polymath]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Will be dismissed by the usual because it is from the Guardian - but it says it as it is : ''British exporters sending goods into the EU have been similarly hit by border frictions. For a small exporter, the costs of the regulatory checks, filling in long and complex forms and meeting new rules around VAT can be crippling. Some businesses have simply had to stop exporting to the EU because of these costs, putting jobs at risk. New rules for shellfish and livestock have led to a dramatic drop in trade. The Road Haulage Association reports that export loads to the EU have been reduced by as much as 68% and that there are only around 10,000 of the 50,000 customs agents who are needed to cope with the flow of goods to the EU. This will have a detrimental impact on the viability of the road haulage industry, also affecting businesses that rely on imports of goods coming into the UK: six in 10 firms are already reporting delays in shipments coming from the EU. Ministers have responded with claims that these are just “teething problems”. They are ignoring industry voices who point out that many are structural problems that will not go away within weeks, or even months, without a significant renegotiation. Little wonder that business representatives say the biggest problem they have with the government at the moment is denial of reality. Calls for meaningful engagement from the government to find solutions go unheeded, even as government trade advisers are encouraging exporters to set up separate companies inside the EU to get around export charges. Ministers simply continue to claim that Brexit is going well. This is the inevitable cost of Brexit. People have spent their lives painstakingly building up a livelihood, only to find it wiped out almost overnight by a government that has eagerly embraced new barriers to trade. They are existing in a warped reality, where it suits neither the government nor the opposition to acknowledge the gravity of their situation. And so, even as jobs disappear and incomes plummet, there will be little political accountability for the flawed political choices that have brought us here.,,

I wouldn't dismiss the Guardian out of hand, I've had great success with a number of recipes they've published.

This is alarmist nonsense, however. Full of exaggerated claims. Hogwash.

Many of the temporary challenges that exist will be overcome through resourcefulness and entrepreneurial endeavours simply resulting in a new paradigm.

I don't read too much into it but incidentally GBP has strengthened considerably since the start of the year.

[marton]

	Quote:	Polymath
	I wouldn't dismiss the Guardian out of hand, I've had great success with a number of recipes they've published. This is alarmist nonsense, however. Full of exaggerated claims. Hogwash. Many of the temporary challenges that exist will be overcome through resourcefulness and entrepreneurial endeavours simply resulting in a new paradigm. I don't read too much into it but incidentally GBP has strengthened considerably since the start of the year.

"temporary challenges" We are already in the sixth week so how long is "temporary" bearing in mind that there was no fundamental necessity for these "challenges" - an on the ball government should have documented and tested the processes before this year started.

[JackieH]

Indeed, and so far, we have been talking about UK exports.

KPMG and others are warning about imports, especially food and meat products, from April, and other rules being phased in. Fruit, veg, fish shellfish, and so much more, and including cheese imports. EU hauliers are already threatening to refuse to come to the UK.

From the Guardian again

''The new checks and processes could mean that “some of the biggest headaches for hauliers and companies which import are definitely yet to come,” says Tim Sarson, a tax partner at accountancy firm KPMG.

The introduction of animal and plant inspections in April coincides awkwardly with the time of year when Britain starts to import more groceries from southern Europe.

“You’ve got SPS checks which are slowing things down just as you’ve got volumes ramping up from Europe, if there are going to be shortages of fresh fruit and veg, that is when it is likely to happen,” Sarson said.''

''More changes occur in July, as traders moving goods must make their full customs declarations on entering the UK, rather than submitting forms at a later date. In addition, imports will have to enter the UK at specific locations known as border control posts.

More changes affecting certification and regulations of items such as medical devices have been given a longer transition period'' - but will also face massive problems.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Indeed, and so far, we have been talking about UK exports. KPMG and others are warning about imports, especially food and meat products, from April, and other rules being phased in. Fruit, veg, fish shellfish, and so much more, and including cheese imports. EU hauliers are already threatening to refuse to come to the UK. From the Guardian again ''The new checks and processes could mean that “some of the biggest headaches for hauliers and companies which import are definitely yet to come,” says Tim Sarson, a tax partner at accountancy firm KPMG. The introduction of animal and plant inspections in April coincides awkwardly with the time of year when Britain starts to import more groceries from southern Europe. “You’ve got SPS checks which are slowing things down just as you’ve got volumes ramping up from Europe, if there are going to be shortages of fresh fruit and veg, that is when it is likely to happen,” Sarson said.'' ''More changes occur in July, as traders moving goods must make their full customs declarations on entering the UK, rather than submitting forms at a later date. In addition, imports will have to enter the UK at specific locations known as border control posts. More changes affecting certification and regulations of items such as medical devices have been given a longer transition period'' - but will also face massive problems.

I remember you telling us the UK would not be able to get any vaccine as we had missed on buying jointly with other EU countries. Goes to show you can't believe everything you read in the Gardian.

[JackieH]

Remember what they said

https://fb.watch/3vZRB1iudZ/

we hold all the cards, there will be no downsize or price to pay, at all.

[Castro]

	Quote:	marton
	"temporary challenges" We are already in the sixth week so how long is "temporary" bearing in mind that there was no fundamental necessity for these "challenges" - an on the ball government should have documented and tested the processes before this year started.

Also bear in mind we are in a 6 month grace period for imports, so once that ends the chaos can begin in both directions. Civil servants have helpfully suggested companies set up subsidiaries in the EU, which is great if you're a major seafood wholesaler, not so much if you sell Fudge from a corner shop in Devon.