The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Apology in order. As a non English speaker, I used the word 'invoke' in the sense of its many synonyms, and not as a legal term.

Sorry you are an English speaker who spent the majority of your life in the UK. I guess you missed out 'native'

[fatmanfilms]

Ursula von de Leyen makes a solid case for BREXIT

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-bri...084112994.html

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Ursula von de Leyen makes a solid case for BREXIT https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-bri...084112994.html

Health is the responsibility of each EU state, not of the EU itself.
So there is no evidence that the UK would have acted any differently in the absence of Brexit.

Past examples of strong UK independence include Schengen and the euro.

[Dinivan]

Considering the mess that the UK government has made of this crisis, that the EU would have more control over the crisis would be a major point against Brexit, not in favour of it.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Health is the responsibility of each EU state, not of the EU itself. So there is no evidence that the UK would have acted any differently in the absence of Brexit. Past examples of strong UK independence include Schengen and the euro.

Not sure you can compare ordering some vaccine with joining Schengen or the Euro.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	"Brexit: 71 pages of paperwork for 1 lorry of fish" https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55887043 Tom

And this is what Bojo promised would be "frictionless trade". Me and many others involved in import and export, especially of food products where veterinary testing is now required of each food batch, knew that there would be major issues. But of course we were accused of spreading Project Fear.

My cheese exporters are having a nightmare right now, I'm not aware of one single pallet of cheese that has managed to make it's way across the channel this year and now my cheese shop, where I usually stock 30 - 50 cheeses, only has one.

[JackieH]

So so sorry you are having to go through this nightmare Grumpy- really hope things get sorted out for you (and all the others)- but it is good to hear from real people who can tell it as it is. Thanks and Bonne Chance.

Coals to Newcastle is one thing, but British Cheeses to the Swiss, that is an amazing feat- you've put so much effort and creativity into this and made a massive success of it. Bravo, and let's hope.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	So so sorry you are having to go through this nightmare Grumpy- really hope things get sorted out for you (and all the others)- but it is good to hear from real people who can tell it as it is. Thanks and Bonne Chance. Coals to Newcastle is one thing, but British Cheeses to the Swiss, that is an amazing feat- you've put so much effort and creativity into this and made a massive success of it. Bravo, and let's hope.

Perhaps you had not noticed that both Switzerland & the UK are both Non EU. Importing to CH has always been a pain even if just from France.

I think you need to campaign for Switzerland to join the EU.

[JackieH]

You should make that comment to Grumpy- he will explain how it works. He has never had any issues with importing before, but now, he just can't.

As said ask him- not me- he knows the facts, for real life.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	My cheese exporters are having a nightmare right now, I'm not aware of one single pallet of cheese that has managed to make it's way across the channel this year and now my cheese shop, where I usually stock 30 - 50 cheeses, only has one.

But what is the actual problem, I’m assuming that the people involved have the ability to complete a form in their native language once they sit down to do so.

- the tests need before completion of the form?
- accumulating the information needed?
- ???

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Perhaps you had not noticed that both Switzerland & the UK are both Non EU. Importing to CH has always been a pain even if just from France. I think you need to campaign for Switzerland to join the EU.

You really have not got the foggiest idea what you are talking about, but no surprise there!

The food safety requirements for shipping to most of Western Europe has changed for UK food and related products.

The EU process includes teams of on site inspectors at many production sites around the world, random visits to other sites etc... stuff small countries can’t afford to do. So we all piggyback of their system. They change something, so do the other countries and they just changed everything in respect of the UK.

[JackieH]

Beyond belief - and then ... he groans YOU

[amogles]

If you browse through the smaller grocery shops in Zürich, for example in the Langstrasse area, there are shops there with shelves and shelves of stuff from Serbia, from Turkey, from Russia, from Lebanon, and further afield even - yay, including cheese, frozen fish, etc.

So obviously there is a way. The exporters just need to get their act together.

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	If you browse through the smaller grocery shops in Zürich, for example in the Langstrasse area, there are shops there with shelves and shelves of stuff from Serbia, from Turkey, from Russia, from Lebanon, and further afield even - yay, including cheese, frozen fish, etc. So obviously there is a way. The exporters just need to get their act together.

The difference is that those countries have been following the process for years and have it down to a fine art.
For Britain it is all-new and compounded by the fact the UK Government failed to inform and train businesses on the new forms and processes; presumably for political reasons to avoid kickback. In fact, the opposite, remember Bojo saying it would be frictionless and people should send any new forms to him for destruction.

[JackieH]

We talked about the music world the other day- but now it is the horse world which is in despair- show jumping and racing - people who generally voted for Brexit and now find that their whole world is coming tumbling down- as they won't be able to export their horses for major competition or races

From Horse and Hounds

''William Funnell reflects on the impact of Brexit and Covid on the sport

Many British riders, myself included, should have been heading to one of the many tours in Europe by now. But, of course, things are very different this year and we’ve been waiting it out at home, weighing up not only how Covid is affecting everything, but the impact Brexit has had, too.

The main knock-on from Brexit has been the extensive paperwork, not to mention cost, involved in transporting horses across the Channel since 1 January. The forms we had just over a month ago that certified us able to drive in Europe are no longer valid.''


And of course, unless someone can deny this with evidence- said paperwork and costs will be for each country if the show-jumpers and racers go from one competition/race to another in another EU country.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	But what is the actual problem, I’m assuming that the people involved have the ability to complete a form in their native language once they sit down to do so. - the tests need before completion of the form? - accumulating the information needed? - ???

Last year when a company wanted to export any animal based food products (meat, cheese, fish etc) to an EU country or CH from the UK they just had to email or fax the paperwork to an export agent at Dover, or wherever they were transiting through, and once there pick up a transfer document and the truck would be on their way.

Now, the UK, as in any country exporting to the EU and CH (and although CH isn't a full member of the EU, it is in the single market) all animal based food products have to have a Veterinary test (to check for Listeria etc) before transit documents can be handed over as part of the export documents. These tests (certainly for cheese, they may differ for other products) cost £180.00 and can take a few days.

If a pallet of 20 or 30 cheeses is being sent from the UK, and if one of those cheeses has the wrong paperwork, or the wrong box has been ticked, then the whole pallet is returned - and that is what has been happening last month. And it's not EU customs officials who are sending the pallets back (as was claimed by a Brexit voting customer of mine last week - just to spite the UK he said) it's the UK based export agents who cannot issue Transfer documents if the paperwork is not correct.

I'm now talking to a couple of Irish cheese wholesalers about getting a pallet of cheese over from there - there are some amazing artisan cheeses from the south (some I often stocked) and of course there is no testing or extra paperwork required to get it to CH. Lucky Ireland, she's in the EU

A good friend of mine is a vet in the UK (although she works with live animals) and she told me the Veterinary testing centres are overwhelmed, and there was little or no preparation last year to be ready for the extra demand. And food exporters in the main seemed to not know that testing would be required prior to exporting.

But it's not just animal based products that are having trouble getting through. A large wholesaler and Cash and Carry in the UK (they supply lots of small grocery stores in the UK and export to the EU) stopped taking orders from customers on the mainland at the end of the 1st week of Jan. The reason being more than half the pallets they sent out, or were collected by customers transport agents, were returned to their warehouses as not all of the paperwork was correct. I know one company here in CH who has 2 pallets stuck there, paid for in advance and no idea when they will be cleared for export.

[JackieH]

So it is not quite like that then

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Rema...9775923630417/

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	amogles
	If you browse through the smaller grocery shops in Zürich, for example in the Langstrasse area, there are shops there with shelves and shelves of stuff from Serbia, from Turkey, from Russia, from Lebanon, and further afield even - yay, including cheese, frozen fish, etc. So obviously there is a way. The exporters just need to get their act together.

Yes of course. But the UK government had over 4 years to prepare the industry, and it did nothing. It just kept saying that everything would be the same as before. And of course it never could or would be.

[MusicChick]

I was an interpreter in one of my earlier lives, for imports from Koberco Kaas/Royal Holandia, Danish blue cheeses and Greek feta. We weren't in the EU yet. Giant turn over, a massive amount of paperwork for each truck, including custom clearances, vet license for each refrigerated truck, etc. The drivers had to stick to a preplanned itinerary, schedule, breaks over the weekends, tech papers for the truck, etc. There was always some problem, since mass exports to EE were new. But it worked. I wish the UK to figure it out asap, I can imagine it is even more pita at Covid times...but crossing fingers for them. I hope my Marmite is coming, too.

[JackieH]

Thank you Music, for explaining clearly why it is not a good idea to go back to those good old days. Who on earth would actually choose to have to go through all this red tape, checks, tariffs, extra costs? Who would vote for this nightmare? Perfectly illustrated by your post above.