The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	How the DUP played their game and took their money, even more so. They KNEW there was no solution in Johnson's Deal. They took the money and gave their support to Johnson and enabled Brexit. tuppence ha'penny beginning to drop.

There was another general election, I think you are confused.

[marton]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Having enough vaccine to go around? The old wrinklies voting for brexit have saved their own skin on that front. Remaining would have cost thousands of lives to extra Covid deaths.

Despite multiple UK Government refusals to publish their contract with AstraZeneca it seems it was published in a redacted form on a govt. website last November.

Also despite all the claims about the UK post-Brexit being agile and quick so getting in earlier with their vaccine order this contract is dated after the EU contract.

Did I ever write you could not make this stuff up?

[JackieH]

Indeed, serious concerns now about the UK's ability to obtain second doses.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Indeed, serious concerns now about the UK's ability to obtain second doses.

They had the same problem with getting a second referendum

[amogles]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Indeed, serious concerns now about the UK's ability to obtain second doses.

while the EU faces serious concerns about the ability to get first doses.

[JackieH]

Marton, yes, totally clear that the 'vaccine nationalism' first started by the UK, with grand fanfare- will go both ways eventually.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	But the bit of DUP logic that really cracks me up: we can’t sign a statutory declaration giving up our right to Irish citizenship because it represents recognition of the Irish state... but signing a passport application for a constituent for the passport of a state you don’t recognize is acceptable.

I may be mistaken of course, but it's the first time I hear the DUP doesn't recognize the Irish state.

What they don't recognize is the sovereignty of the Irish State over NI.

That is a totally different matter.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	I may be mistaken of course, but it's the first time I hear the DUP doesn't recognize the Irish state. What they don't recognize is the sovereignty of the Irish State over NI. That is a totally different matter.

You have a lot to learn...

[JackieH]

Ulster Unionists will never ever get an Irish Passport- even if they are entitled to them.

[marton]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Ulster Unionists will never ever get an Irish Passport- even if they are entitled to them.

Only those who like Spanish holidays...

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Ulster Unionists will never ever get an Irish Passport- even if they are entitled to them.

Apply for Irish passport if you can, advises DUP MP Ian Paisley

	Quote:
	Mr Paisley, who campaigned strongly with the DUP for a Leave result, surprised many on Twitter when he wrote: "My advice is if you are entitled to a second passport then take one. "I sign off lots of applications for constituents."

Even Sammy has admitted he is signing applications for members....

[marton]

	Quote:
	British flower and ornamental plant growers have warned that after Brexit, millions of flowers will not be harvested this year, initially daffodils, because plans to accept foreign farmworkers did not include the billion-pound sector.

When will somebody post Brexit good news?

[marton]

	Quote:
	Holyhead port is the second-largest roll-on roll-off port in the UK, formerly carrying around 1,200 lorries and trailers across the Irish Sea every day. Activity in Holyhead is down over 50%, while in Fishguard it is down by 75% as freight travels directly from Ireland to mainland EU instead of over Britain. Stena Line, which runs Holyhead port, announced earlier this month that it will move its passenger and vehicle ferry Stena Estrid from Holyhead to create a new weekend service between Dublin and Cherbourg.

They really need to improve the UK/EU goods handling.

[JackieH]

	Quote:	marton
	When will somebody post Brexit good news?

You'd think our Brexiter colleagues here would be delighted to rub it in somehow- but nothing, surprisingly

[eairicbloodaxe]

"You'd think our Brexiter colleagues here would be delighted to rub it in somehow- but nothing, surprisingly "

Mumble mumble... something about vaccines... mumble mumble...

(I'm waiting to be enlightened too.)


Regards


Ian

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	eairicbloodaxe
	"You'd think our Brexiter colleagues here would be delighted to rub it in somehow- but nothing, surprisingly " Mumble mumble... something about vaccines... mumble mumble... (I'm waiting to be enlightened too.) Regards Ian

Remove the mumble mumble and you've hit the nail on the head. The most important issue this year. By far. The EUs handling has been a "fiasco". Guy Verhofstadts words not mine. https://euobserver.com/stakeholders/150931.

Here's what the unelectable Lib Dem's had to say about the issue - "The government must put people's lives before politics and join the EU's vaccine scheme." Will they apologise and admit they were speaking rubbish and that they were the ones risking lives? No they won't.

We now have the freedom to diverge and more things will come up over time that we can judge brexit on. It's a medium to long term project. I'm surprised that there's already been such a huge benefit in the first few months tbh. I expected these first few months to be full of teething difficulties without much benefit.

Let's see where UK gdp growth is by 2025 or 2030 compared to Germany, France, Italy and Spain. (Or just look at 2021 growth if you prefer!)

The reality is we Brexiteers are delighted to have got rid of the commission and basically are very happy. I don't want my country to be governed by an undemocratic bunch of protectionist technocrats. Europe's economic performance has been very poor for a long time compared to other developed western countries so objectively they've done badly.

I think overall I'm not going to convince you and you aren't going to convince me.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	Europe's economic performance has been very poor for a long time compared to other developed western countries. I'm not going to convince you and you aren't going to convince me.

Maybe because they count all countries - those that have a very poor economic performance (reasons - non-existent foreign or European investments, brain drain, labour shortage/drain) and those that are doing very well. Overall performance is low(er), of course.
So if you look at Germany, for instance, they're on par with everyone else. Too bad that after they imported a few millions refugees they still need Eastern Europeans to do those jobs that nobody wants. Meanwhile, some sectors in EE are declining due to exactly the same reasons only in reverse.

[HickvonFrick]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Maybe because they count all countries - those that have a very poor economic performance (reasons - non-existent foreign or European investments, brain drain, labour shortage/drain) and those that are doing very well. Overall performance is low(er), of course. So if you look at Germany, for instance, they're on par with everyone else. Too bad that after they imported a few millions refugees they still need Eastern Europeans to do those jobs that nobody wants. Meanwhile, some sectors in EE are declining due to exactly the same reasons only in reverse.

Eastern Europe generally has the strongest growth rates (if you exclude Ireland as their growth rate is essentially not a real one due to their tax haven activities). Unsurprising really.

I have no idea why Romania and Bulgaria etc. joined as FMOP was always going to be a complete disaster in terms of losing many of their best workers. And being saddled with an overlly strong currency. Their growth rates, although comparatively high are largely worse than before joining (at least if you exclude the period around the fall of the Soviet Union).

My main worry post brexit is that Immigration falls on a permanent basis. Not that this is in any way an inevitable result of Brexit but because of political pressure from brexiteers (who I largely disagree with on the issue). If I lose my bet above on economic growth rates it'll be because Germany has a more immigrant friendly approach than the UK. I don't want FMOP as I don't believe in discrimination based on where you come from but I do want a generally pro immigration position.

	Quote:	HickvonFrick
	I don't want my country to be governed by an undemocratic bunch of protectionist technocrats.

You think the UK was governed by Brussels?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	You think the UK was governed by Brussels?

I thought UK had to accept most EU laws, the EU even wanted to the UK to keep those laws after leaving