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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29421  
Old 21.02.2021, 16:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Being ruled by Murdoch, Bannon and all, isn't very palatable at all. Give me EU with our representatives at the top table to form and influence decisions.
It is a little ironic that a large number of the EU26 favours the UK view on socioeconomic matters. The BENELUX hates being pushed around by FR/DE as do the Scandinavians/Finland and Baltic States. Cyprus, Malta and to a lessor extent Ireland are more in the UK camp. Actually everyone hates the French.

If only the UK actually tried to lead in Brussels we would have a much different EU today.

But rather than sending their very best to Brussels, they sent a load of grifters and has beens.
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  #29422  
Old 21.02.2021, 17:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Yes indeed-people like Farage who never ever bothered to do his job- or even attend! And now goes on and on about the demise of fisheries.

Again, you could not make it up ...
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  #29423  
Old 21.02.2021, 17:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes indeed-people like Farage who never ever bothered to do his job- or even attend! And now goes on and on about the demise of fisheries.

Again, you could not make it up ...
You & your friends were foolish to view Farage as useless & lazy. It's useless & lazy people like Farage that change history.
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  #29424  
Old 21.02.2021, 17:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You & your friends were foolish to view Farage as useless & lazy. It's useless & lazy people like Farage that change history.
And not always for the better.

If I had my choice of who would lead Europe, it wouldn't be Germany or France.
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  #29425  
Old 21.02.2021, 17:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And not always for the better.

If I had my choice of who would lead Europe, it wouldn't be Germany or France.
I think Germany would be an unacceptable choice, they tried to run Europe twice before. France is ultimately run by the lorry drivers so that would be a no from me.
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  #29426  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And not always for the better.

If I had my choice of who would lead Europe, it wouldn't be Germany or France.
So who would you choose Bowlie?
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  #29427  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:11
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So who would you choose Bowlie?
Well, when I was spending much of my working time dealing with Brussels, I would have said the UK. These days perhaps the Isle of Man?
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  #29428  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Yes indeed-people like Farage who never ever bothered to do his job
he was just about the only politician in the Eu, ever, to have deliverer on the one promise on which he was elected.

He was elected to get a job done, one job. Not to attend endless irrelevant meetings.

Maybe others could take a leaf out of his book.
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  #29429  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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he was just about the only politician in the Eu, ever, to have deliverer on the one promise on which he was elected.

He was elected to get a job done, one job. Not to attend endless irrelevant meetings.

Maybe others could take a leaf out of his book.
I suppose you don’t know much about the European Parliament, except what you read in the daily mail.
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  #29430  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you want to export stuff to other countries- you have to accept their norms and standards, simple. Or you don't- and the markets close to you. simple. And a level playing field, so your own producers, workers, etc, etc- do not suffer from massive undercutting, be it in rights, salaries, jobs and also product safety, husbandry and bio security, and so much more.
welcome to the Trump club.
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  #29431  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not talking about exports, things like the 'level playing field', protectionism for inefficient countries. EU is about 16% of world trade, plenty of scope with the other 84%.
For online purchases buying in the USA is now often cheaper for Brits than buying from the EU, I used to order German made car parts for my Porsche from the USA when I lived in Switzerland, it was the cheapest source after shipping & tax.
I recently ordered some tools from a Chinese seller (not Alibaba) because they had them much cheaper than any EU supplier for an identical item, even if shipping and duties were included. I assumed this was probably because they came from China anyway so i might as well buy at source.

On opening the box I found it was made in Poland.
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  #29432  
Old 21.02.2021, 18:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think Germany would be an unacceptable choice, they tried to run Europe twice before. France is ultimately run by the lorry drivers so that would be a no from me.
France has since the demise of Napoleon for the most part been governed on the principle that the cog that squeaks the loudest gets the most grease. The net result has been all cogs to squealing as loudly as possible and a chronic shortage of grease.

The lorry drivers are only one of those cogs.

To some extent the French style of governance has been unthinkingly copied by the EU, with the added attraction being that the French could play with the Germans' money rather their own.
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  #29433  
Old 21.02.2021, 21:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well, when I was spending much of my working time dealing with Brussels, I would have said the UK. These days perhaps the Isle of Man?
In fact, it was a major missed opportunity for the UK. If the UK had ever had a leader who looked outwards instead of inwards then the UK could, and should, have been leading the EU.

Probably the best indication of the UK failure to take the EU seriously was Farage and his bunch of UKIP clowns winning so many EU parliament seats.

Karma is after Farage making so much political capital about the UK fisherman they have probably come off the worst in the post-Brexit consequences. Turkeys voting for Christmas again.
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  #29434  
Old 21.02.2021, 21:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Seeing a recent photo of him recently, living in a barely furnished bedsit without a picture of photo anywhere, and looking grey/yellow and very drawn- he certainly does not look very well. Have the fags and booze + failure finally caught up with him?

Country File tonight - mind boggling to hear that some of the fishermen interviewed are actually surprised that Brexit didn't provide them with an improvement in their businesses. One of them said "I voted to leave the EU, in order to increase our exports to Europe".

Where is that phrase about not being able to make it up! People are truly and quickly waking up to the fact they have been good and properly done (could think of even better words).
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  #29435  
Old 21.02.2021, 21:29
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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France has since the demise of Napoleon for the most part been governed on the principle that the cog that squeaks the loudest gets the most grease. The net result has been all cogs to squealing as loudly as possible and a chronic shortage of grease.

The lorry drivers are only one of those cogs.

To some extent the French style of governance has been unthinkingly copied by the EU, with the added attraction being that the French could play with the Germans' money rather their own.
Whose money?
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  #29436  
Old 21.02.2021, 21:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Remove the mumble mumble and you've hit the nail on the head. The most important issue this year. By far. The EUs handling has been a "fiasco". Guy Verhofstadts words not mine. https://euobserver.com/stakeholders/150931.

Here's what the unelectable Lib Dem's had to say about the issue - "The government must put people's lives before politics and join the EU's vaccine scheme." Will they apologise and admit they were speaking rubbish and that they were the ones risking lives? No they won't.

We now have the freedom to diverge and more things will come up over time that we can judge brexit on. It's a medium to long term project. I'm surprised that there's already been such a huge benefit in the first few months tbh. I expected these first few months to be full of teething difficulties without much benefit.

Let's see where UK gdp growth is by 2025 or 2030 compared to Germany, France, Italy and Spain. (Or just look at 2021 growth if you prefer!)

The reality is we Brexiteers are delighted to have got rid of the commission and basically are very happy. I don't want my country to be governed by an undemocratic bunch of protectionist technocrats. Europe's economic performance has been very poor for a long time compared to other developed western countries so objectively they've done badly.

I think overall I'm not going to convince you and you aren't going to convince me.
"my country to be governed by an undemocratic bunch of protectionist technocrats" always the same bleating from a country where Prime Ministers, Cabinet Ministers, and senior civil servants are also not democratically elected. Probably the biggest surprise was Theresa May as PM.
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  #29437  
Old 21.02.2021, 21:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Whose money?
The Eu budget is in the three figure billions, not the two figure millions.

But anyway.
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  #29438  
Old 21.02.2021, 22:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Seeing a recent photo of him recently, living in a barely furnished bedsit without a picture of photo anywhere, and looking grey/yellow and very drawn- he certainly does not look very well. Have the fags and booze + failure finally caught up with him?

Country File tonight - mind boggling to hear that some of the fishermen interviewed are actually surprised that Brexit didn't provide them with an improvement in their businesses. One of them said "I voted to leave the EU, in order to increase our exports to Europe".

Where is that phrase about not being able to make it up! People are truly and quickly waking up to the fact they have been good and properly done (could think of even better words).
Annual MEP salary, expenses, allowances, etc. can run up to half a million per year, a lot to walk away from.
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  #29439  
Old 22.02.2021, 09:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well, when I was spending much of my working time dealing with Brussels, I would have said the UK. These days perhaps the Isle of Man?
UK? Seriously? Perhaps that's the reason everyone is relived (in a way) they're separating from the continental Europe after quite a few years of drama. What would I have in common with a Brit for instance? I feel like I have much more in common with the French. Or even with the Germans, despite dragging us into a second world war that has been catastrophic for us, Soviet tanks aside and Soviet troops stationed till the sixties aside.

In all fairness, I would like every country to have a say and to be able to follow their own interests, however limited by the rest of the union countries' interests. The idea of Germany and even France running Europe unilaterally/bilaterally, like in some sort of Austro-Hungarian Reich II, it is frightening. With Germany, we've been there before.

As long as EU wants to save the world but not their own citizens e.g. see the agreements they have with various organisations/countries, they're gonna lose big time. I don't care about their post-colonial guilt. I just don't care. If they want to prove that being a EU member has some value, they have to think bigger than how they do now. IMO, obviously.

Last edited by greenmount; 22.02.2021 at 09:50.
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  #29440  
Old 22.02.2021, 09:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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UK? Seriously? Perhaps that's the reason everyone is relived (in a way) they're separating from the continental Europe after quite a few years of drama. What would I have in common with a Brit for instance? I feel like I have much more in common with the French. Or even with the Germans, despite dragging us into a second world war that has been catastrophic for us, Soviet tanks aside and Soviet troops stationed till the sixties aside.

In all fairness, I would like every country to have a say and to be able to follow their own interests, however limited by the rest of the union countries' interests. The idea of Germany and even France running Europe unilaterally/bilaterally, like in some sort of Austro-Hungarian Reich II, it is frightening. With Germany, we've been there before.

As long as EU wants to save the world but not their own citizens, they're gonna lose big time.
I fear this (a Franco-Germanic, or Germanic-French, whichever way you'd like it) is the only way a united Europe is going to happen.
There's gonna have to be someone who's calling the shots (pun intended).
There's no way you can have an entity with the size of Europe and diverging cultural, social, economic, political, military (and religious) heritage and goals and govern it like it's the local small-animal-breeding-club on steroids.

The reality might be, though, that the money will run out before that pipe-dream is reached.

I think every politician knows this. But what nobody (them included) knows it what comes after the whole thing has gone down. That is what is driving this whole thing (IMO).
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