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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29441  
Old 22.02.2021, 10:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I recently ordered some tools from a Chinese seller (not Alibaba) because they had them much cheaper than any EU supplier for an identical item, even if shipping and duties were included. I assumed this was probably because they came from China anyway so i might as well buy at source.

On opening the box I found it was made in Poland.
They (the Chinese Alibaba merchants) have warehouses in Poland these days.

Doesn't mean they actually pay taxes in Europe, but you don't have to wait for six weeks for your shipping to arrive.
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  #29442  
Old 22.02.2021, 10:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Annual MEP salary, expenses, allowances, etc. can run up to half a million per year, a lot to walk away from.
The Law on shellfish processing, which is currently killing our fisheries, dates from 2008. Guess who was the MEP in charge of fisheries at the time?
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  #29443  
Old 22.02.2021, 10:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I recently ordered some tools from a Chinese seller (not Alibaba) because they had them much cheaper than any EU supplier for an identical item, even if shipping and duties were included. I assumed this was probably because they came from China anyway so i might as well buy at source.

On opening the box I found it was made in Poland.
Yes. When I see made in Poland or made in Portugal written on products that we massively import from China now because we were told to destroy our own production capacity, I feel a brief moment of happiness.
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  #29444  
Old 22.02.2021, 10:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think Germany would be an unacceptable choice, they tried to run Europe twice before. France is ultimately run by the lorry drivers so that would be a no from me.
Germany tried several more times before the last two.

And the UK is run by a German family.

Tom
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  #29445  
Old 22.02.2021, 11:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now this was the second time I asked the question, quite some time ago. And somehow, for some strange reason, our Brexiter friends have not come forwards with an answer. So, in case they missed it, I shall ask for the 3rd time and wait patiently



I would be interested in knowing from our resident Brexiters what solutions, viable, and which will not result in bloodshed- they would envisage to solve this one? Thanks.

the border between UK and EU UK/NI and NI/Eire ? We need your bright ideas for a solution, please.
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  #29446  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The BioNTech vaccine, the first vaccine to be developed, with one the best protection rates (better than the AZ garbage), was developed by sons and daughters of so-called 'low-skilled immigrants', those immigrants that selfish entitled Breexiters hate.

Remember that at the end of the days, in front of death we are all the same...low-skilled, high-skilled, rich, poor, frontaliers, residents...we are all going to be worthless ash in the end.
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  #29447  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The BioNTech vaccine, the first vaccine to be developed, with one the best protection rates (better than the AZ garbage), was developed by sons and daughters of so-called 'low-skilled immigrants', those immigrants that selfish entitled Breexiters hate.
Since when are surgeons and biologists low-skilled?
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  #29448  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Since when are surgeons and biologists low-skilled?
Their parents came to Germany from Turkey to work in so-called 'low-skilled' jobs.
Read the life history of the BioNTech founders...
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  #29449  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Since when are surgeons and biologists low-skilled?
Let's not being elitist. The power of the proletariat goes a long way.
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  #29450  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I fear this (a Franco-Germanic, or Germanic-French, whichever way you'd like it) is the only way a united Europe is going to happen.
There's gonna have to be someone who's calling the shots (pun intended).
There's no way you can have an entity with the size of Europe and diverging cultural, social, economic, political, military (and religious) heritage and goals and govern it like it's the local small-animal-breeding-club on steroids.
This is at the end of the day why I think the European project won't work. Those who are most naturally placed to lead are the ones who really shouldn't.

I don't agree that the cultural diversity is an insurmountable problem. Switzerland for example has a lot of that too. Switzerland has different languages, religions, attitudes, who in the early days had very little in common, but who may have approached one another slowly over time. And yet it all works somehow. But this is because the Swiss have learned to be aware of the differences and have developed the necessary respect to work together without imposing their way of doing things on the others.

Germany also emerged form a multitude of little countries, which also had cultural and religious differences. But the unification was largely at the behest of Prussia and the Prussians attempted (with limited success) to form the rest of Germany in their image. In doing so they caused a lot of resentment (ask a Bavarian). But still nobody in Germany wants to go back to where they were before. Even in Bavaria, the place with the strongest will to independence, the independence party doesn't get more than a few percent of the vote.

Belgium had even worse problems with essentially one linguistic group suppressing the other for a long time. And the other group now finding its voice and hitting back. And a lot of people actually believe that in the longer term Belgium will fall apart, for better or for worse.

So Europe needs to be asking itself whether they want to be the new Belgium or the new Germany or the new Switzerland.
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  #29451  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The BioNTech vaccine, the first vaccine to be developed, with one the best protection rates (better than the AZ garbage), was developed by sons and daughters of so-called 'low-skilled immigrants', those immigrants that selfish entitled Breexiters hate.

Remember that at the end of the days, in front of death we are all the same...low-skilled, high-skilled, rich, poor, frontaliers, residents...we are all going to be worthless ash in the end.
I do like a balanced summary. Meanwhile, in Germany, the already appalling vaccination rate is taking a further tumble because people are actively not turning up to their appointments if its the AZ jab they are getting, meaning the current stockpile of 1.5m doses is not being taken up (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xford-jab.html).

It is because of views such as those above that this message permeates which is problematic because this will genuinely result in more infections and ultimately deaths, because of such scaremongering.
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  #29452  
Old 22.02.2021, 13:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So Europe needs to be asking itself whether they want to be the new Belgium or the new Germany or the new Switzerland.
Russia is in Europe, too.

There are many good, not so good, not so bad and bad examples.

CZ got split despite there not being many pressing reasons, still worked out ok. I think the split was mainly religious vs non religious life style. Belgian friction in my experience stems from religious split? Ireland/UK also touches on the religious note. CH is smooth as it gets since the religion doesn't seem to split people. So Europe should pick whatever splits the least, imho.
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  #29453  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Their parents came to Germany from Turkey to work in so-called 'low-skilled' jobs.
Read the life history of the BioNTech founders...
I did. It writes
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Born in Lastrup, Türeci is the daughter of a Turkish surgeon father from Istanbul, who worked at the Catholic hospital St. Elisabeth-Stift in Lastrup in the district of Cloppenburg.[6] Her mother is a Turkish biologist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96zlem_T%C3%BCreci

You must have very high standards. Are you perhaps a brain surgeon?
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  #29454  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Belgian friction in my experience stems from religious split? Ireland/UK also touches on the religious note. CH is smooth as it gets since the religion doesn't seem to split people. So Europe should pick whatever splits the least, imho.
I think on the contrary. They united back in the day that religion was important. The Flemish were predominantly Catholic whereas the Dutch were predominantly protestant (with some pockets and exclaves of exceptions), so the Flemish ceded from the Netherlands and ended up attaching themselves to French-speaking Wallonia because those guys were Catholic too, but otherwise they had little in common.

Today nobody cares about religion any more, but language has become a big divider. Which is why many Flemish want to go back.
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  #29455  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I do like a balanced summary. Meanwhile, in Germany, the already appalling vaccination rate is taking a further tumble because people are actively not turning up to their appointments if its the AZ jab they are getting, meaning the current stockpile of 1.5m doses is not being taken up (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xford-jab.html).

It is because of views such as those above that this message permeates which is problematic because this will genuinely result in more infections and ultimately deaths, because of such scaremongering.
Imagine people are turning down the now proven life saving AZ vaccine in part because of misinformation spread by the likes of President Macron and the EU, and all because the EU couldn’t own up to the mistakes that they made.
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  #29456  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think on the contrary. They united back in the day that religion was important. The Flemish were predominantly Catholic whereas the Dutch were predominantly protestant (with some pockets and exclaves of exceptions), so the Flemish ceded from the Netherlands and ended up attaching themselves to French-speaking Wallonia because those guys were Catholic too, but otherwise they had little in common.

Today nobody cares about religion any more, but language has become a big divider. Which is why many Flemish want to go back.
This is the opposite I hear from the young Belgians I hang out with. Everybody speaks languages, here and there, it is an instrument. But religion is not an instrument, it is a choice. And I think where language can help unite, religion can still split. Not in CH, because of the respect to everyone's choice they made as per religion and spirituality. So, you say people were more united since there was more religion..maybe there was more familiarity, lack of choice, no alternatives. I think there is a chance for unity, out of respect - not because of a language or religion. But respecting people's choices. EU deprives of a choice and imposes oversight. It is the same issue as NGOs eating tax money and investing them in political campaigning of their choice I saw on local programming - very interesting issue. Same dilema.
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  #29457  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is because of views such as those above that this message permeates which is problematic because this will genuinely result in more infections and ultimately deaths, because of such scaremongering.
I don't think people are scared of the AZ vaccine; they just regard it as inferior to some of the alternatives (or all of the available alternatives). It's a view shared by most British medical practitioners, according to a survey published in the BMJ.

Given the choice, I'd certainly elect to have the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine over the AZ jab. But if the alternatives aren't offered, there's no question that I'd take the AZ vaccine. It works, just not as well. I don't know whether those who have refused the AZ vaccine would become eligible to receive one of the others instead.
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  #29458  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think on the contrary. They united back in the day that religion was important. The Flemish were predominantly Catholic whereas the Dutch were predominantly protestant (with some pockets and exclaves of exceptions), so the Flemish ceded from the Netherlands and ended up attaching themselves to French-speaking Wallonia because those guys were Catholic too, but otherwise they had little in common.

Today nobody cares about religion any more, but language has become a big divider. Which is why many Flemish want to go back.
I thought the shape of Belgium was basically set by the London Conference of 1830 followed by pressure from Britain and France to finalise the situation.
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  #29459  
Old 22.02.2021, 14:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think on the contrary. They united back in the day that religion was important. The Flemish were predominantly Catholic whereas the Dutch were predominantly protestant (with some pockets and exclaves of exceptions), so the Flemish ceded from the Netherlands and ended up attaching themselves to French-speaking Wallonia because those guys were Catholic too, but otherwise they had little in common.

Today nobody cares about religion any more, but language has become a big divider. Which is why many Flemish want to go back.
I agree.
Religion is definitely not a major cause of friction in Belgium today.
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Old 22.02.2021, 15:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Perhaps better to open a specific thread about Belgium? as we are getting a bit far from the OP.

And try and solve the UK/EU border. Surely a Brexiter or two on here should have a great solution to hand.
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