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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29461  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This is the opposite I hear from the young Belgians I hang out with. Everybody speaks languages, here and there, it is an instrument. But religion is not an instrument, it is a choice. And I think where language can help unite, religion can still split. Not in CH, because of the respect to everyone's choice they made as per religion and spirituality. So, you say people were more united since there was more religion..maybe there was more familiarity, lack of choice, no alternatives. I think there is a chance for unity, out of respect - not because of a language or religion. But respecting people's choices. EU deprives of a choice and imposes oversight. It is the same issue as NGOs eating tax money and investing them in political campaigning of their choice I saw on local programming - very interesting issue. Same dilema.
I don't think that religion, or language or anything else is can in and of itself unite or split people. It can start to be a splitting factor when people start to use it as an identifying factor.

For example for a long time the French speaking south of Belgium was the rich part. This is where the coal mines mostly were and the big steel plants and back in the day a lot of entrepreneurs built up industrial empires out of nothing. The northern speaking Flemish part was mostly agricultural and nothing much ever changed there. So Flemish people who wanted to make money and seek opportunities moved down south and sought work in the French part. And this meant they had to learn French. Middle class Flemish families would send their kids to French speaking schools to improve their chances of moving up in life. It's surprsing how many French speaking Belgians have Flemish surnames, but its rare to see a native Flemish speaker with a French surname.

Over time this led to the perception that Flemish speakers are poor and uneducated peasants, and French speakers were entrepreneurial, educated and succesful.

But then post WW2 a lot of things changed. The coal ran out. The steel industry went into decline. Once succesful cities like Charleroi turned into brownfield wildernesses with high unemployment. But in the Flemish part the reverse happened. High tech companies moved in. Tourism developed. But the French speakers still regarded them as a backward lot and refused to even attempt to speak the language when visiting. Attitudes did not immediately catch up with reality. And this led to a backlash, politically. i don't think the language was the decisive factor. It was just one group feeling unhappy about another group and looking for some identifying factor to create a separate identity around. The language just came in handy. It could just as well have been something else.

Maybe the younger generation are moving beyond that again and things will calm down over time. Possibly. I don't know.
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  #29462  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Perhaps better to open a specific thread about Belgium? as we are getting a bit far from the OP.

And try and solve the UK/EU border. Surely a Brexiter or two on here should have a great solution to hand.
Jackie, you know there is no realistic solution. Probably the one with the fewest objections would be a merger of the two Irelands. Many in the south would support, about half (perhaps more) of the north would support and those in GB could give a toss.

Ireland could also join the UK ... But that isn't bloody likely. Would you give up independence and EU membership for Boris' lot?
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  #29463  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Perhaps better to open a specific thread about Belgium? as we are getting a bit far from the OP.

And try and solve the UK/EU border. Surely a Brexiter or two on here should have a great solution to hand.
Back to topic and in the "do not know whether to laugh or cry corner".
The UK Govt. has announced the Turing scheme for education but not yet much detail on their website, it reads more like a wish list. They say students will be able to study abroad but no information yet on which countries.
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  #29464  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Now according to Tories today, if you take the middle of April and go 3 weeks later, it takes you to the 8th of March - Pardon??? (re- re-opening of schools)


https://fb.watch/3PuTQaXSgX/

Last edited by JackieH; 22.02.2021 at 16:39.
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  #29465  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Jackie, you know there is no realistic solution. Probably the one with the fewest objections would be a merger of the two Irelands.
I did say 'without bloodshed'


Yes, I know that there is no solution- it is perfectly clear.

But it was perfectly clear all along, right from the start. And yet the DUP took the money and voted for Johnson's Deal, knowing this full well. Johnson knew it, the ERG knew it - everyone with 2 brain cells knew it.
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  #29466  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

IIRC 56% of N. Ireland voters favoured remain.
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  #29467  
Old 22.02.2021, 16:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Maybe the younger generation are moving beyond that again and things will calm down over time. Possibly. I don't know.
I think so.
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  #29468  
Old 22.02.2021, 17:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I thought the shape of Belgium was basically set by the London Conference of 1830 followed by pressure from Britain and France to finalise the situation.
There was a revolution and popular uprising that started prior to this date.
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  #29469  
Old 22.02.2021, 17:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I did say 'without bloodshed'


Yes, I know that there is no solution- it is perfectly clear.

But it was perfectly clear all along, right from the start. And yet the DUP took the money and voted for Johnson's Deal, knowing this full well. Johnson knew it, the ERG knew it - everyone with 2 brain cells knew it.
DUP have now started legal action against the deal.........
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  #29470  
Old 22.02.2021, 18:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Indeed, for the umpteenth time- you just could not make it up!


Brexit dividends personified - the picture of a successful man

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...terview/18/02/

Last edited by JackieH; 22.02.2021 at 19:59.
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  #29471  
Old 22.02.2021, 22:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So Europe needs to be asking itself whether they want to be the new Belgium or the new Germany or the new Switzerland.
This stuff takes time, centuries. The EU on the other hand is less than 30 years old (Maastricht).
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  #29472  
Old 22.02.2021, 22:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This stuff takes time, centuries. The EU on the other hand is less than 30 years old (Maastricht).
Prior to that I don’t think Europe ever went 30 years without a major war. And the primary objective of the EU has always been to stop war in Europe. With some hiccoughs they have been successful.
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  #29473  
Old 22.02.2021, 22:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Prior to that I don’t think Europe ever went 30 years without a major war. And the primary objective of the EU has always been to stop war in Europe. With some hiccoughs they have been successful.
The Bosnians are eternally thankful.

Quite besides which there are many other parts of the world that have not seen a war on their own turf for longer than that. Maybe the EU is taking credit for things that they are not the sole authors of. NATO also played an important role in keeping peace in Europe for example.
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  #29474  
Old 22.02.2021, 22:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Prior to that I don’t think Europe ever went 30 years without a major war. And the primary objective of the EU has always been to stop war in Europe. With some hiccoughs they have been successful.
Quite a bold claim, what's your proof?
I'm not talking about a grandiose ex-post claim by some grandstanding politician, but an official common statement (contract, agreement, whatever) issued during "your" 30 years (I thought the MontanUnion was established more like 40 years prior, either is fine).

The absence of war is an absolutely necessary pre-requisite for any kind of trade agreement. First there was peace, then came the agreements.
(reminds me of Telegraph Road, time for lots of Dire Straits)

Besides, and just IIRC, not being involved in a war is a condition sine qua non to join the EU. One of the reasons IMHO why Russia keeps making sure Ukraine is not in a peace situation.
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  #29475  
Old 22.02.2021, 22:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think Germany would be an unacceptable choice, they tried to run Europe twice before. France is ultimately run by the lorry drivers so that would be a no from me.
I think especially the present German leadership, and also the present French leadership are unpalatable to many.
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Old 23.02.2021, 00:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I think especially the present German leadership, and also the present French leadership are unpalatable to many.
The problem from a "balance of powers in Europe" POV is, France is now the only nuclear power. In order for the EU to counter Russia if necessary, it would make sense if Germany became one, too. But of course that can't happen, which creates quite a problem and seems likely to deepen the EU's dependance on the US.
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  #29477  
Old 23.02.2021, 12:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem from a "balance of powers in Europe" POV is, France is now the only nuclear power. In order for the EU to counter Russia if necessary, it would make sense if Germany became one, too. But of course that can't happen, which creates quite a problem and seems likely to deepen the EU's dependance on the US.
But of course. On a different thread some folks here denied that EU is dependant on the US in regards to military defense thus their foreign politics which is so dependant on their current leadership might affect us.
I would not give up this partnership for the illusory promises coming from EU.
EU has promised a lot of things, but the reality is some are more equals than others. Wouldn't put past them to dump us like trash when convenient.
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  #29478  
Old 23.02.2021, 13:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

1000 EU Finance firms to set up offices in the UK. Sounds like a benefit to me
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56...A7t3kVNPhPZj9I
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Old 23.02.2021, 13:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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1000 EU Finance firms to set up offices in the UK. Sounds like a benefit to me
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56...A7t3kVNPhPZj9I
Weren't they free to set up offices before? What's the rush?

Reminded me of something I read a while ago - UK is actively encouraging entrepreneurs in IT to set up business there. It is laughable to have opportunities and financial stimulants in the UK post-Brexit and not everywhere in the EU if you decide to. Unsere Ursula sleeps tight.
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  #29480  
Old 23.02.2021, 13:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The problem from a "balance of powers in Europe" POV is, France is now the only nuclear power. In order for the EU to counter Russia if necessary, it would make sense if Germany became one, too. But of course that can't happen..
Why?


Quote:
..which creates quite a problem and seems likely to deepen the EU's dependance on the US.
Biden will hardly support the idea of a ton of NATO investments. He will continue with what Trump started just will not own up to it. The US presence in NATO will imho reduce. My 2c. Why wouldn't it..
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