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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #29701  
Old 09.04.2021, 14:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I’m saying what they promised in the campaign is unachievable. I wasn’t blaming anyone per say. You just confirmed it is unachievable!
So we agree, you knew this, I knew this, Arlene and Paisley knew it (but took the money) - Johnson, the ERG, Cummings, all knew this. But to say this was ignored, is just so wrong. Warnings were given, again and again, from all sides, and by experts in the matter, like Prof Dougan of Liverpool University. De Villiers, Kate Hoey and all the Brexiters denied it all, and called it 'Project Fear'.

Listen to the video posted above- that was Johnson in Nov 18- and he knew it perfectly well. He said NO Tory could ever consider signing up to an WA which would cut off NI.

Much more recently, he told an Assembly of NOI businessmen, who knew perfectly well themselves that a border would have to be in place- that unless they were exporting protected species, drugs or arms- there would be absolutey NO border and NO checks, and NO red-tape whatsoever- and if they were required to produce any, to just put it all in the bin and ignore it- and get those requesting such to get in touch with him (Johnson) personally and he would deal with it. The people he said that to knew he was lying.
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  #29702  
Old 09.04.2021, 14:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So we agree, you knew this, I knew this, Arlene and Paisley knew it (but took the money) - Johnson, the ERG, Cummings, all knew this. But to say this was ignored, is just so wrong. Warnings were given, again and again, from all sides, and by experts in the matter, like Prof Dougan of Liverpool University. De Villiers, Kate Hoey and all the Brexiters denied it all, and called it 'Project Fear'.

Listen to the video posted above- that was Johnson in Nov 18- and he knew it perfectly well. He said NO Tory could ever consider signing up to an WA which would cut off NI.

Much more recently, he told an Assembly of NOI businessmen, who knew perfectly well themselves that a border would have to be in place- that unless they were exporting protected species, drugs or arms- there would be absolutey NO border and NO checks, and NO red-tape whatsoever- and if they were required to produce any, to just put it all in the bin and ignore it- and get those requesting such to get in touch with him (Johnson) personally and he would deal with it. The people he said that to knew he was lying.
If it was so obvious, why did remain fail to make the majority of the population aware if this?
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  #29703  
Old 09.04.2021, 19:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If it was so obvious, why did remain fail to make the majority of the population aware if this?
Because people prefer to believe nice things than bad, especially if they're not the ones who will be directly affected
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  #29704  
Old 09.04.2021, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

https://fb.watch/4Mc_jcfKAw/

very well explained.
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  #29705  
Old 09.04.2021, 19:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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More unnecessary Brexit expense, from the Express


On top of that


Seems people who were under the radar for years were hoping the Spanish authorities would continue to turn a blind eye post-Brexit, many never registered with the authorities, or live in illegally built homes or do not meet the minimum income requirements (slightly lower than the UK minimum income requirements recently reduced from £35,800 p.a. minimum salary to £25,600).
The present Spanish government is up to its neck in the quagmire. Brexit is probably the smallest of its concerns.

Tourism and expats are a major source of economic activity, maybe even more so right now that the country is on the brink of another self-inflicted recession, caused by one of the most anti-business and anti-entrepreneurial governments in decades. It can (hopefully) only be a question of time until the adults return to power in Spain and actually stop shooting themselves in the foot to amuse Mrs Merkel.
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  #29706  
Old 09.04.2021, 20:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Ther has to be a border somewhere - Irish Sea or Irish main land. I don’t see another solution that would be ok for the EU. This should have be a major point of the remain campaign - but it just seemed to be forgotten about.
Not really. It kept being mentioned, but like so many other problematic points pro-Brexit kept brushing it aside as part of project fear.

The main problem was that there was no longer a dialogue (not sure there is one nowadays). Very much like the ideology-driven battle today in the US between Dems and Reps, or around here between the woke feminists and everybody else.
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  #29707  
Old 10.04.2021, 11:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

From the ft
Behind a paywall, I have not summarised the article because the headline says it all
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  #29708  
Old 10.04.2021, 12:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From the ft


Behind a paywall, I have not summarised the article because the headline says it all
Are you saying that Brits that own property in the UK don’t wrangle with red tape? Home ownership everywhere involves red tape. But I can see the difficulties for those that don’t speak the local language.
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  #29709  
Old 10.04.2021, 12:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you saying that Brits that own property in the UK don’t wrangle with red tape? Home ownership everywhere involves red tape. But I can see the difficulties for those that don’t speak the local language.
Assuming they previously bought, this implies the language & red tape where not a major issue.
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  #29710  
Old 10.04.2021, 14:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So we agree, you knew this, I knew this, Arlene and Paisley knew it (but took the money) - Johnson, the ERG, Cummings, all knew this. But to say this was ignored, is just so wrong. Warnings were given, again and again, from all sides, and by experts in the matter, like Prof Dougan of Liverpool University. De Villiers, Kate Hoey and all the Brexiters denied it all, and called it 'Project Fear'.

Listen to the video posted above- that was Johnson in Nov 18- and he knew it perfectly well. He said NO Tory could ever consider signing up to an WA which would cut off NI.

Much more recently, he told an Assembly of NOI businessmen, who knew perfectly well themselves that a border would have to be in place- that unless they were exporting protected species, drugs or arms- there would be absolutey NO border and NO checks, and NO red-tape whatsoever- and if they were required to produce any, to just put it all in the bin and ignore it- and get those requesting such to get in touch with him (Johnson) personally and he would deal with it. The people he said that to knew he was lying.
The selective memory of the hard Remainers is really quite something!

Theresa May negotiated a deal that would have avoided most if not all of these problems in Northern Ireland through dynamic alignment. The remain faction in Parliament voted it down on numerous occasions because they wanted to reverse Brexit. This is the reason Boris Johnson is now Prime Minister!
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  #29711  
Old 10.04.2021, 14:12
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The selective memory of the hard Remainers is really quite something!

Theresa May negotiated a deal that would have avoided most if not all of these problems in Northern Ireland through dynamic alignment. The remain faction in Parliament voted it down on numerous occasions because they wanted to reverse Brexit. This is the reason Boris Johnson is now Prime Minister!
The Brexiteers were against the May deal because the UK could not set its own tariffs.

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In the May protocol, there would have been a customs union between Great Britain and the EU, with Northern Ireland in the EU’s customs territory. It means the whole of the UK and EU would have a common external tariff.

Now the whole of the UK will manage its own tariffs and will be able to sign agreements to lower them, which would include Northern Ireland.
Who has a poor memory
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  #29712  
Old 10.04.2021, 14:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Staggering isn't it- Memory? This is hypocrisy of the highest order.

After backtracking on their super-principled stand, ERG members have now thrown their wholehearted backing behind the prime minister’s new deal. A development some might find unexpected, if not shocking. Especially when you consider how Johnson’s deal is demonstrably worse, weakening the UK’s negotiating position with regard to the EU on the trade deal to come, not to mention the embarrassment of giving up on their commitment to Northern Ireland. Last October, for instance, Jacob Rees-Mogg argued Theresa May’s Brexit deal threatened the “integrity” of the UK by keeping Northern Ireland in a separate arrangement with the EU. Accusing the then prime minister of trampling on her red lines, he put his name to a failed no-confidence letter against her.

How have the ERG explained this volte-face? On Channel 4 News last Thursday, Andrew Bridgen declared: “It looks like Brexit and smells like Brexit – that’s Brexit for me.” In the House of Commons on Saturday, Francois said it was to get Brexit over the line. And for Bernard Jenkin, while aspects of the deal had “terrible elements”, the deal was a substantial improvement on what May had come to the Commons with “and it now points in a far more positive direction for our country”. This positive direction, one assumes, is the prospect of tightening the screws on workers’ rights and shredding consumer protections. The ERG’s retreat is not a pragmatic compromise to reach their ideological nirvana. It’s a scramble after interests.

As Sky’s Lewis Goodall has rightly noted, Johnson and sections of the ERG came behind May’s deal on its third appearance in the Commons because their main objective had been achieved: they had secured the promise of her departure and the possibility of installing a Brexiteer in her place. And that possibility always had Johnson’s name on it. Therefore their staunch opposition was about power politics, and so their “capitulation” to Johnson’s deal is nothing of the sort. This is a group getting used to their victory. Their positions on tax, trade, and migration are now the Tory mainstream, and those of a more temperate bent have been eased out – or, in the case of the pro-EU/anti-no deal group of Tories that Johnson sacked, now reside outside the party altogether.''


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cial-interests

The Red Lines the ERG and ult Cons had set out and used to push Mrs May and her Deal out - suddenly became all rosy, despite having turned blood red. They all knew the GFA and NI was being torn apart and that it would very probably have very serious consequences. If you deny this, we are not talking about poor memory ....
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  #29713  
Old 10.04.2021, 14:25
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What the hell is ERG?

Anyway, the whole Irish problem is the fault of GB, as they illegally colonized the place, let THEM sort it out!

Anyway, just return Northern Ireland back to it's rightful owners, and kick out the foreigners, problem solved!

Tom
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  #29714  
Old 10.04.2021, 14:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Staggering isn't it- Memory? This is hypocrisy of the highest order.

After backtracking on their super-principled stand, ERG members have now thrown their wholehearted backing behind the prime minister’s new deal. A development some might find unexpected, if not shocking. Especially when you consider how Johnson’s deal is demonstrably worse, weakening the UK’s negotiating position with regard to the EU on the trade deal to come, not to mention the embarrassment of giving up on their commitment to Northern Ireland. Last October, for instance, Jacob Rees-Mogg argued Theresa May’s Brexit deal threatened the “integrity” of the UK by keeping Northern Ireland in a separate arrangement with the EU. Accusing the then prime minister of trampling on her red lines, he put his name to a failed no-confidence letter against her.

How have the ERG explained this volte-face? On Channel 4 News last Thursday, Andrew Bridgen declared: “It looks like Brexit and smells like Brexit – that’s Brexit for me.” In the House of Commons on Saturday, Francois said it was to get Brexit over the line. And for Bernard Jenkin, while aspects of the deal had “terrible elements”, the deal was a substantial improvement on what May had come to the Commons with “and it now points in a far more positive direction for our country”. This positive direction, one assumes, is the prospect of tightening the screws on workers’ rights and shredding consumer protections. The ERG’s retreat is not a pragmatic compromise to reach their ideological nirvana. It’s a scramble after interests.

As Sky’s Lewis Goodall has rightly noted, Johnson and sections of the ERG came behind May’s deal on its third appearance in the Commons because their main objective had been achieved: they had secured the promise of her departure and the possibility of installing a Brexiteer in her place. And that possibility always had Johnson’s name on it. Therefore their staunch opposition was about power politics, and so their “capitulation” to Johnson’s deal is nothing of the sort. This is a group getting used to their victory. Their positions on tax, trade, and migration are now the Tory mainstream, and those of a more temperate bent have been eased out – or, in the case of the pro-EU/anti-no deal group of Tories that Johnson sacked, now reside outside the party altogether.''


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cial-interests

The Red Lines the ERG and ult Cons had set out and used to push Mrs May and her Deal out - suddenly became all rosy, despite having turned blood red. They all knew the GFA and NI was being torn apart and that it would very probably have very serious consequences. If you deny this, we are not talking about poor memory ....
If Remain MPs had voted for Mrs May’s deal instead of against it with the intention of reversing Brexit, then the votes of the ERG would have been meaningless

They gambled and lost. The ERG gambled and won.
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  #29715  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:26
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If Remain MPs had voted for Mrs May’s deal instead of against it with the intention of reversing Brexit, then the votes of the ERG would have been meaningless

They gambled and lost. The ERG gambled and won.
The classic example of a Pyrrhic victory.
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  #29716  
Old 10.04.2021, 15:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Won what? Pray tell?
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  #29717  
Old 10.04.2021, 16:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What the hell is ERG?
European Research Group

Not sure why a border inside the country is such a big deal. It could be used to increase the support for NI, e.g. by lowering VAT or removing it altogether. CH has been doing such for ages (see Samnaun), other countries probably too, and nobody cares.
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  #29718  
Old 11.04.2021, 11:59
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Won what? Pray tell?
Apologies for repeating - but surely that deserves a reply. Leave won what? Could we please have that long list. Thanks.
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  #29719  
Old 11.04.2021, 12:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Apologies for repeating - but surely that deserves a reply. Leave won what? Could we please have that long list. Thanks.
The ability to ignore EU laws, which is huge if you are centre / centre right or right wing.
I believe the UK was alone as the only EU country thats does not charge National Insurance contributions on earnings below £184 a week, yet gives a full pension to anyone to anyone earning £120 a week, so they will in effect get a higher pension than they earned! The last thing low paid British people need is 'tax harmonisation'. A person living in France earning €140 would pay €30.80 social contributions. vivre le capitalism, the ability to subsidise the poor.
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  #29720  
Old 11.04.2021, 12:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Wow- impressive list. thanks.
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