The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	Was up over 6% this month yesterday. Down a bit today though

i'm guessing that is a gbp chart

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	The referendum has already earned its value. Just seeing the exchange with Farage today was worth it. The whole of Europe sees this. Its encouragement for dissent, which is much needed in Europe. Dissent is healthy. If the EU still turns a deaf ear to everything now, it just digs itself deeper. Even the hilarious reactions of the losing remainers has a certain entertainment value. There is no reason to believe they will never invoke A50. They just won't do it now while the EU has laid a trap. That would be stupid. They have to get their house in order first, then plot out a roadmap.

"If the EU still turns a deaf ear to everything now" People keep talking about the EU as if it was some sort of sovereign power which it is not.
All decisions are made by the 28 countries; important ones have to be unanimous.

You only have to watch Juncker keep demanding the UK clarify the situation and invoke article 50. He is being both consistently and comprehensively ignored; then you understand he and his EU apparatus have no real power.

"Even the hilarious reactions of the losing remainers has a certain entertainment value." almost as entertaining as watching the winners disputing what they promised before the referendum and demonstrating their complete lack of any plan or ideas to implement Brexit.

[crazygringo]

	Quote:	Phos
	The referendum has already earned its value. Just seeing the exchange with Farage today was worth it.

Farage's exchange was nothing more than whistling past the proverbial graveyard, and dangerously foolish whistling at that.

	Quote:	Phos
	The referendum has already earned its value. Just seeing the exchange with Farage today was worth it. The whole of Europe sees this. Its encouragement for dissent, which is much needed in Europe. Dissent is healthy. If the EU still turns a deaf ear to everything now, it just digs itself deeper. Even the hilarious reactions of the losing remainers has a certain entertainment value. There is no reason to believe they will never invoke A50. They just won't do it now while the EU has laid a trap. That would be stupid. They have to get their house in order first, then plot out a roadmap.

How much value when dissent leads to this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-bomb-it.html

Or this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-swearing.html

Or this?

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...045317215.html


Voting in or out is one thing but mistreatment of people based on their origins as far as I am concerned is not on, clearly you're all up for that.

Are you even British or just a stirrer of shit?

Equating Brexit with racism is ridiculous.

I think this is a permanent contour of politics from here on for some time, and is not likely to quickly disappear. It has a pretty significant trend trajectory, and appears to be only at its beginning. The reason for its growth is because it has been ignored. That is what feeds it. I'm not sure it will be stuffed back into a box. I think you may have to converse with it to understand it, to learn how to deal with it. Which is sorely lacking in the current political structure.

	Quote:	Phos
	Even the hilarious reactions of the losing remainers has a certain entertainment value.

For you, as a foreigner, maybe. There is little amusing about the current state of affairs in either the EU or the UK.

	Quote:
	There is no reason to believe they will never invoke A50.

The entire Establishment is opposed to the United Kingdom leaving the EU. Everyone. All of them. Even Boris Johnson. Perhaps especially Boris Johnson.

Brexit isn't going to happen.

But I still have no regrets about voting Leave, and I will vote the same way if there is another referendum. The EU hasn't changed since last Thursday, and I can't see it changing its core principles (to which I am implacably opposed) to suit the awkward member/not member/member on its western edge.

[curley]

	Quote:	Phos
	The referendum has already earned its value. Just seeing the exchange with Farage today was worth it. The whole of Europe sees this. Its encouragement for dissent, which is much needed in Europe. Dissent is healthy. If the EU still turns a deaf ear to everything now, it just digs itself deeper. Even the hilarious reactions of the losing remainers has a certain entertainment value. There is no reason to believe they will never invoke A50. They just won't do it now while the EU has laid a trap. That would be stupid. They have to get their house in order first, then plot out a roadmap.

I totally agree with you on all points mentioned.
What annoys me is that even Brits say the result is not binding (which I don't know if it's true but I guess I just gotta believe them) and therefore seem to backpedal on this important statement of British voters only days after the result came out. It lessons the effect.

There is self-soothing taking place out of shock. But it hasn't even been a week since the referendum, and the media is really rubbing in the fear. And if you think about it, nothing has even happened yet. A bit of mass hysteria at the moment.

	Quote:	curley
	I totally agree with you on all points mentioned. What annoys me is that even Brits say the result is not binding (which I don't know if it's true but I guess I just gotta believe them) and therefore seem to backpedal on this important statement of British voters only days after the result came out. It lessons the effect.

It serves as a warning, not that the establishment is listening.

Seen on Facebook this morning: England removed from Europe twice in a week: once by Iceland, once by people who shop at Iceland.

They still haven't learnt, and I don't want to think about what it will take to make them learn.

What I do know is that cheap plumbing services and supermarket Brie will be the least of their worries next time the people-who-shop-at-Iceland make their voices heard.

[curley]

	Quote:
	How much value when dissent leads to this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-bomb-it.html Or this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-swearing.html Or this? http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...045317215.html Voting in or out is one thing but mistreatment of people based on their origins as far as I am concerned is not on, clearly you're all up for that. Are you even British or just a stirrer of shit?

What is the message behind this thread of yours? That such votes like Brexit should not take place anymore because horrible things like you linked can happen afterwards?!

And are you saying, us non-Brits should quit this thread? If so, what exactly is the difference - except that your demand won't kill me?

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	Equating Brexit with racism is ridiculous. I think this is a permanent contour of politics from here on for some time, and is not likely to quickly disappear. It has a pretty significant trend trajectory, and appears to be only at its beginning. The reason for its growth is because it has been ignored. That is what feeds it. I'm not sure it will be stuffed back into a box. I think you may have to converse with it to understand it, to learn how to deal with it. Which is sorely lacking in the current political structure.

"Equating Brexit with racism is ridiculous." As you are a foreigner and have not been around for a while I can forgive you for not knowing racism was fanned by some Leave campaigners.

"The reason for its growth is because it has been ignored. " No, it has grown due to certain aspects of the leave campaign. Now we have people who have been in UK for generations being attacked.
England has always been a multicultural society.
Your comments are at best ill informed.

"Which is sorely lacking in the current political structure" The mayor of London is Muslim, there are people of many religions and races in the current political structure; you are writing complete Tosh again .

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2922246&type=3

people are indeed angry and hurting- but most of what concerns them has very little to do with the EU, but home-made political choices by our own gvt.
Coming out of the EU will not solve any of the above. And yes, people will be even more angry when they come to realise this- like the Welsh and the Cornish- when they realise EU funding is no longer there, and won't be replaced with gvt money either.

There's a glimmer of hope for the Remain crowd if - by some miracle - democracy does prevail: http://romaniansadoptremainians.gandul.info

Beautiful country, relatively easy language (compared to the neighbours), Bucharest known as "Paris of the East"...

What is there not to love?

[curley]

	Quote:
	Brexit isn't going to happen. But I still have no regrets about voting Leave, and I will vote the same way if there is another referendum. The EU hasn't changed since last Thursday, and I can't see it changing its core principles (to which I am implacably opposed) to suit the awkward member/not member/member on its western edge.

Was that clear to you all along or are you being resigned (in the sense of resigniert/sich damit abgefunden zu haben)?

	Quote:	curley
	Was that clear to you all along or are you being resigned (in the sense of resigniert/sich damit abgefunden zu haben)?

Always knew it. When everybody in power is opposed to something, you know you're never going to get it.

No harm in trying, though, eh?

[Kosti]

	Quote:
	https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2922246&type=3 people are indeed angry and hurting- but most of what concerns them has very little to do with the EU, but home-made political choices by our own gvt. Coming out of the EU will not solve any of the above. And yes, people will be even more angry when they come to realise this- like the Welsh and the Cornish- when they realise EU funding is no longer there, and won't be replaced with gvt money either.

Indeed, the EU does NOT tell governments what to do with the benefits of the common market.

A video with interviews from people from Boston, Lincolnshire, one of the most pro-leave areas, on different sides of the free movement debate.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/vid...54335414884060

If you use the argument that the economy will benefit from immigration and the common market, but then take the resulting increases in tax receipts and give it all to big business and fighting wars, without investing in local services and infrastructure, all the while letting the EU be used as a scapegoat, then its not hard to understand what happened June 23rd.

90 percent of the EU role is ensuring that the common market functions, and making sure that regulatory barriers are the same (Tariffs are a sideshow within the common market). So that cars made in the UK can be sold in Germany too without the Germans imposing additional conditions. Its inefficient since it must work by consensus amongst 28 countries.

Should it do less. Probably. But is it responsible for the bedroom tax? No.

I really don't think that people who voted for Brexit voted for money. I'm not sure it is a convincing argument for those who don't think it is the first priority for them. We're not all mammonites, you know?

ach, I know that may be hard for some to imagine.

[curley]

	Quote:
	Always knew it. When everybody in power is opposed to something, you know you're never going to get it. No harm in trying, though, eh?

Maybe I'm just too stubbern to agree with your first statement but I'm glad even believing that you guys keep trying/making a statement

As a Swiss this situation is incomprehensible though

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	curley
	Maybe I'm just too stubbern to agree with your first statement but I'm glad even believing that you guys keep trying/making a statement As a Swiss this situation is incomprehensible though

Curley, most just keep making the same statement. This is not unknown in Switzerland.


Many are making wholly incorrect assertions about their own political system. This is also not unknown in Switzerland.


Many haven't understood that while what you read on facebook may be appealing to them and have quotes, photos, and urls which support their own argument, facebook is no substitute for fact checking (I'm surprised that nobody has posted the picture of Farage as a punk in the '80s). The Swiss are not immune to straw manning the opposing view.


Many feel that for democracy to succeed that the best course of action is to (temporarily) rescind democracy or the rule of law. I don't think I've ever heard a Swiss express this sentiment.


The British are pissed off. I don't think the Swiss have ever experienced this kind of thing, and even if they were to, it probably wouldn't be followed on the word stage the way Brexit has been.

	Quote:
	Always knew it. When everybody in power is opposed to something, you know you're never going to get it. No harm in trying, though, eh?

A friend teaches law in a London Uni and told me earlier today the EU lawyers (one of whom is a friend of hers) in London are incredible busy at the moment