The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Castro]

	Quote:	curley
	I keep reading about this possibility and I'm flabbergasted! No wonder the argument about giving up democracy being in the EU was of no importance to most the Brits - they got nothing to give up, obviously! What a waste of time and energy this was if the result can just be ignored. And how stupid does the idea of a second referendum sound under the present circumstances? Wtf for? ROFL. Why doesn't GB just put the Queen back in charge - at least be honest about just being a commanded populace. (She might even do better!)

I'm of the firm opinion that a referendum should never have been called in the first place, it was political oportunism by Cameron to win the last general election and unfortunately it backfired. At the very least the terms of the referendum should have been better defined, such as a requirement for a two-thirds super majority just like for US Constitutional Amendments.

To put it into perspective, another example would be our position on the death penalty. Successive polls in the UK have shown that if put to a vote a majority would vote to bring back hanging (certainly for paedophiles, terrorists and estate agents).Does that mean we should really bring it back because the majority want it, or should we decide that certain principles are too sacred to be subject to a simple majority vote?

I think it was Churchill who said that Democracy is the least worst form of government.

[crazygringo]

	Quote:	marton
	"The reason for its growth is because it has been ignored. " No, it has grown due to certain aspects of the leave campaign.

in fairness, some of why it is growing is the result of generational statistics. every country has always had its share of old people pining for the "good old days", there are simply more of them on a percentage basis at present.

	Quote:	Castro
	I think it was Churchill who said that Democracy is the least worst form of government.

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and they deserve to get it good and hard. At least according to Mencken.

[Phil_MCR]

First Eurozone dominos start to fall:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...-domino-falls/

Interestingly, Italy wants to break EU state aid rules to rescue the bank. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up as another case of the typical EU "forget rules/laws and just do whatever you feel like" such as not fining Spain and Portugal for their deficits. This makes me so mad. Why do we even bother to be in a club where they don't even follow their own bloody rules!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/213c6b76-3...#axzz4Cue23dKd

[Phos]

The UK needs to relax, sit back, and watch what unfolds.

East EU states want powers returned to capitals after Brexit vote

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Phos
	East EU states want powers returned to capitals after Brexit vote

They just need the money and want to secure it. Nothing more.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Sorry, I have to object to your use of the term "trap". It was pretty clear what the EU reaction would be. One of the defining characteristics of a trap is that it is hidden.

Indeed, the EU are scum, and act as one would expect such scum to act.

Tom

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Phos
	The UK needs to relax, sit back, and watch what unfolds. East EU states want powers returned to capitals after Brexit vote

Agreed. The Eurozone are going to deteriorate more severely over the next weeks and months than the UK.

I'm more concerned about UK politics and finding someone with a backbone to push through Brexit.

I do like Theresa May's view on the EU. If we were to stay in, then I would be happy with her approach and strategy (assuming she can execute on it).

Though with the Brexit vote, I wonder what room she has to manoeuvre and whether she can reconcile her pro-EU position with a Brexit.

http://www.conservativehome.com/parl...full-text.html

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	curley
	Why doesn't GB just put the Queen back in charge - at least be honest about just being a commanded populace. (She might even do better!)

The unelected Queen is head of state and perfectly entitled to tell her subjects - Brits aren't free nor citizens - what to do. Historical agreements with her Government mean they do the dirty work, she gives her consent, stays quiet, stays almighty. Brussels has a lot to learn.

[idefix]

I found it surprising that the EU leadership doesn't even want to keep UK in the EU. But on the other hand, it won't be bad at all for the EU. They will get rid of the GBP and what's left can be eventually switched over to EUR or is not that imporant (bulgarian lev for example). Total control EU super state in the making.

Germany must be using the situation to gain even more prominent place. Now that the UK is gone, Germany and France will fill in the gap.

Other than, this has got to be the greatest EPIC fail and the biggest whining ever. Cameron promised a referendum knowing it won't pass, it passes and now for a week everybody and their dog wants another vote

Seeing that the whole country voted for LEAVE (except London) it shows how much the British care about the EU

[idefix]

	Quote:	curley
	Why doesn't GB just put the Queen back in charge - at least be honest about just being a commanded populace. (She might even do better!)

Apparently she is haunted

[Phos]

	Quote:	idefix
	Germany must be using the situation to gain even more prominent place. Now that the UK is gone, Germany and France will fill in the gap.

B.. bu... but... the UK hasn't left the EU yet. Until Article 50. In fact, they could play very thick and influence events as it splinters, guiding reform. Thereby once again saving Europe and the World. Hurrah! I love the UK.

Is this possible? Or can they get kicked out? They have a contract.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	idefix
	Germany must be using the situation to gain even more prominent place. Now that the UK is gone, Germany and France will fill in the gap.

they already have started. following usual form, EU has responded to an EU crisis, but exploiting it to push for more EU.

this was leaked by the Polish media but I'm going to give the ZH link because of extra sensationalism

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...an-super-state

edit: if you want the more boring link: http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/2...Germany-report

[jacek]

There's a good chance to have another referendum/debate on "To trigger or not to trigger - that's the question" regarding the Article 50. It will be worthless without another poll.

http://www.politico.eu/article/david...rticle-50-now/

Maybe the whole campaign was just a well masterminded provocation to introduce the changes into already badly flawed EU system. It needs radical changes for sure. At least things won't be the same anymore and it's about the time to revise the whole EU project. If that's what it takes to make those Brussel's bureaucrats do something serious about it, so be it. Well done lads!

[Phil_MCR]

English will not be an official EU language after Brexit, says senior MEP

http://www.politico.eu/article/engli...it-senior-mep/

[jacek]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	English will not be an official EU language after Brexit, says senior MEP http://www.politico.eu/article/engli...it-senior-mep/

This will surely create long queues in front of the Gothe Institute to get their an mindestens B1 oder B2 Zertifikat or optionally Française proficiency tests anyone?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Pashosh
	Corbyn's Antisemite friends & sympathies were already discussed. It seems that his followers in "momentum" don't see this as a problem: "Jess Phillips said she had faced antisemitic abuse since stepping down, tweeting a Momentum email that accused her of being bought by “Zionist money”."

I find that deeply disturbing and it only serves to confirm my resounding fears about the far left of the party.

I've been getting reports from friends who live and work in Manchester city centre about racist attacks there today. One incident has been captured on a phone cam, sent to the Manchester Evening News and three arrests have been made.

There are too many sick people out there who feel that the Brexit result has legitimised their bigotry. Well the message from the parliament and the police is loud and clear that this is not the case.


My fear is that this will only get worse when the Leave voters realise that the only option currently on the table is access to the single market with free movement of people.

Now Boris, Gove and Hannan have all alluded to this, but Jeremy Hunt (who was for Remain) is considering putting himself forward with the same proposal, but with the idea that this would have to go to referendum because it wasn't an option on the original ballot paper.

So as it stands, you have 4 used car salesman with identical cars at identical prices, but one is offering a free 5yr parts and labour guarantee. Welcome Prime Minister Hunt


Labour need to evict Corbyn and crack on with the job at hand. He's a stubborn, arrogant prick and will never win votes for them outside of the 250k party members who elected him. He's a liability.

	Quote:	curley
	I totally agree with you on all points mentioned. What annoys me is that even Brits say the result is not binding (which I don't know if it's true but I guess I just gotta believe them) and therefore seem to backpedal on this important statement of British voters only days after the result came out. It lessons the effect.

It never was legally binding.

It has to be ratified by the House Of Commons then passed by the House Of Lords. There are already contitutional law experts saying they have issues with this result.

	Quote:	Castro
	I'm of the firm opinion that a referendum should never have been called in the first place, it was political oportunism by Cameron to win the last general election and unfortunately it backfired. At the very least the terms of the referendum should have been better defined, such as a requirement for a two-thirds super majority just like for US Constitutional Amendments. To put it into perspective, another example would be our position on the death penalty. Successive polls in the UK have shown that if put to a vote a majority would vote to bring back hanging (certainly for paedophiles, terrorists and estate agents).Does that mean we should really bring it back because the majority want it, or should we decide that certain principles are too sacred to be subject to a simple majority vote?

The difference being of course that no one will die as a result of Brexit.

The Swiss are able to vote on such matters with a simple 50+ majority without issue. Why shouldn't the Brits? Or are you not OK with the direct democracy that there is here?

If anything Brexit has shown us, we need more referendums.

[RufusB]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	The unelected Queen is head of state and perfectly entitled to tell her subjects - Brits aren't free nor citizens - what to do. Historical agreements with her Government mean they do the dirty work, she gives her consent, stays quiet, stays almighty. Brussels has a lot to learn.

Um. Hope you're poking fun here: the Queen is the head of state and has a Royal Prerogative, but any "power" she has she... hasn't, because it's all mostly all ceremonial. The PM consults her about some things but it's a courtesy. The elected Parliament make the decisions.

Technically she's Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, too, but I can't imagine that cutting any practical dice in warzones.


She can grant honours and things are done in her name - passports etc, and I think UK police officers swear some kind of fealty to the crown meaning they're never, technically, off duty - but it's the government, not her.

[dodgyken]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	English will not be an official EU language after Brexit, says senior MEP http://www.politico.eu/article/engli...it-senior-mep/

So the Irish will be told to speak Gaelic and ignored when they speak English?

Meanwhile I am aware remain voters maybe beginning to run out after all the clutching this week - so here are some more

[RufusB]

	Quote:	idefix
	Other than, this has got to be the greatest EPIC fail and the biggest whining ever. Cameron promised a referendum knowing it won't pass, it passes and now for a week everybody and their dog wants another vote Seeing that the whole country voted for LEAVE (except London) it shows how much the British care about the EU

He promised a referendum because he wanted to win an election and thought/gambled that the vote would go "his" way. He bet everything and lost.


And the whole country didn't vote for leave, that is the issue. A very small majority did.


Honestly, I suppose that's the argument for proportional representation.


The "British" didn't vote against the EU, I don't think. As has been said here before many times in many ways, the result is an expression of dissatisfaction with the status quo; a clear statement to the UK government that the country as a whole is unhappy and needs change. The older generation in particular - and they had the numbers to provide the tipping point in many areas - have been screwed over countless times. This was just the first time, really, in a long time that they've been able to make the point.