The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[k_and_e]

Now there is also less sunshine expected in the UK for the next months, as a consequence of Brexit. It is expected that the government will decide to set the clock back by one hour by end of October.

[Biro]

	Quote:	marton
	It was not "spilt milk", it was a democratic decision.

Fully agree with you, but a lot of people still crying about it !

[JackieH]

Could it be because it has been proven, irrefutably, that is was NOT democratic, at all. Could it be because the promises made have turned out to be lies?

And could it be because every single warning by experts in so many fields, were dismissed as 'project fear' and have turned into 'project reality'?

And because the Deal, negotiated for years, word by word, sentence by sentence ... with consequences clear as a bell, was signed with fingers crossed behind back and Johnson, ERG and Frost (who elected him btw? and he was a very firm and strong remainer as the Head of the Whisky Association) - with every intent to not abide by it, and now wanting to re-negotiate and threaten to invoke Art 16 and destroy the GFA?

Perhaps?

Today in Lisbon - humiliated and hoisted by his own petard ''The Not-So-Secret Diary of David Frost aged 13¾.''

[Biro]

European Union and how everythnig will be wonderfully meshed togerther as one big happy family...........yeah righ !


The North does't trust the South with the money, the South are unhappy as the Noth refuses to hand over the keys of the safe; the West doesn't trust the East to abide by the rules, the East doesn't trust the West not to impose alien concepts.


And then dear little Micron with his France First or France 2030 investment policy, how European is that now ? Stinks of France first, Europe second !

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Biro
	And then dear little Micron with his France First or France 2030 investment policy, how European is that now ? Stinks of France first, Europe second !

It’s an election promise. He can’t actually discriminate against other member states, and he knows it.

[JackieH]

Barnier is running for President, as a centre right candidate. He is clearly speaking about limiting immigration from outside Europe, but totally in favour of Free Movement inside EU.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Biro
	European Union and how everythnig will be wonderfully meshed togerther as one big happy family...........yeah righ ! The North does't trust the South with the money, the South are unhappy as the Noth refuses to hand over the keys of the safe; the West doesn't trust the East to abide by the rules, the East doesn't trust the West not to impose alien concepts. And then dear little Micron with his France First or France 2030 investment policy, how European is that now ? Stinks of France first, Europe second !

At this stage an ability to demonstrate a lack of knowledge on a topic does not impress. On the ignore list.

[marton]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Unfortunately, it seems inevitable that supply chains are going to go through more disruption https://news.sky.com/story/hgv-drive...cklog-12432213

No worries, the UK Government announced today they have issued 20 visas to foreign HGV drivers; the crisis is over

[bowlie]

…and some wally moaning on the BBC that he has no Harry Potter stuff for Christmas. Surely he could use magic.

[Biro]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	At this stage an ability to demonstrate a lack of knowledge on a topic does not impress. On the ignore list.

You really are such a knowlegable chap, Jim2007

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Biro
	You really are such a knowlegable chap, Jim2007

Don't be too hard please. He seems to have issues with leaving, so Brexit might be close to his heart.

[NotAllThere]

	Quote:	marton
	It was not "spilt milk", it was a democratic decision.

Democratic does not mean "a good idea".

It was a democratic decision to spill milk. Badly managed as well. To continue the metaphor, not only did the milk get spilled, but it was the last of the milk (only UHT available) and it mainly fell on the UK's crotch.

[BritS]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Don't be too hard please. He seems to have issues with leaving, so Brexit might be close to his heart.

Why would he have to leave, he's Irish, isn't he?

[marton]

	Quote:	NotAllThere
	Democratic does not mean "a good idea". It was a democratic decision to spill milk. Badly managed as well. To continue the metaphor, not only did the milk get spilled, but it was the last of the milk (only UHT available) and it mainly fell on the UK's crotch.

A mixed metaphor.
Democratic decisions can be reversed, spilled milk not.

Otherwise agree

[JackieH]

This is pretty damning. Even before the 2019 General Election, and before the first vote in the Commons on the issue- Johnson had already decided he would sign the 'Oven Ready Deal', knowing full well he had every intention of tearing it up. No fan of Paisley jnr, but here it is:


https://youtu.be/YLa0hVOU0Us


it is hard to watch, really

https://fb.watch/8DI5hXXQvv/

[Talk to you later]

	Quote:	marton
	A mixed metaphor. Democratic decisions can be reversed, spilled milk not. Otherwise agree

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	A mixed metaphor. Democratic decisions can be reversed, spilled milk not. Otherwise agree

If you accept CH as a guide: not "can" but "could".
In practice the same topic won't get raised again for many decades, including by the SVP/UDC (of course they keep milking the same herd, just not the same cow in the same manner). Not even the Initiative on the marriage penalty got relaunched after it was declared invalid (a "first ever") by the federal court.

[mirfield]

	Quote:	marton
	Democratic decisions can be reversed

I doubt this one can.

Even if there was the will for UK to (re)join EU or a CU, they'd hardly have the influence (and special deals) they held before.

More likely they'd be a weak laughing stock when trying to negotiate; "What are you going to do? Leave? "

[bowlie]

	Quote:	mirfield
	I doubt this one can. Even if there was the will for UK to (re)join EU or a CU, they'd hardly have the influence (and special deals) they held before. More likely they'd be a weak laughing stock when trying to negotiate; "What are you going to do? Leave? "

I disagree. Both Brussels and many of the Member States would welcome the UK back into the fold, perhaps even with previous opt-outs back in place.

Brussels knows that the EU is much stronger on the International stage with the UK in. Many of the smaller states such as the Benelux and Scandinavians would love to have the UK back, weakening the influence of Germany and France.

The latter two might resist but with Merkel gone and a change of government likely in Paris their eyes are going to be focussed internally over the next few years.

The real question is if the British electorate would vote to return. All it would really take is to reduce the abstention rate by a fraction and reminding them that their lack of Harry Potter’s toys is all BoJo’s fault.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	bowlie
	I disagree. Both Brussels and many of the Member States would welcome the UK back into the fold, perhaps even with previous opt-outs back in place.

It is not up to Brussels and the member states.... treaty decisions are not within the realm of the commission, the council nor the parliament.

Do you really think that referenda in Ireland, France, Denmark and possibly The Netherlands would succeed as well as getting the 38 national and local parliaments to agree? Because unless the UK was willing to accept all the current criteria including the Euro, that is what would be required to avoid such a situation.

I doubt very much that Ireland would even be willing to hold such a referendum, whatever about France. It would give SF an incredible platform - Irish voters deciding the fate of the UK and I can't see any Irish PM agreeing to that.

I suspect BREXIT really was the decision of a generation or possibly even longer.