The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[bowlie]

Somebody famous once said that Private discussions leading to Public agreements were always better than Public discussions leading to Private agreements.

I guess Boris isn’t learning from history.

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	BritS
	Britain could stop the boats tomorrow, if they opened up a legal channel for asylum seeking.

Legal channels are there! Actual refugees use these all the time, the UK is planning on bringing over 20,000 Afghan refugees this year alone. This is an issue between the UK and France, and will only be resolved between these two countries. Unfortunately, both prefer political posturing to actually addressing the issue.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

[BritS]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Legal channels are there! Actual refugees use these all the time, the UK is planning on bringing over 20,000 Afghan refugees this year alone. This is an issue between the UK and France, and will only be resolved between these two countries. Unfortunately, both prefer political posturing to actually addressing the issue. https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

Good try.

As you are well aware, the link you sent doesn't preclude people arriving by any means at all, including via rickety boats.

What legal methods do you think "genuine" refugees are currently using?

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	bowlie
	Somebody famous once said that Private discussions leading to Public agreements were always better than Public discussions leading to Private agreements. I guess Boris isn’t learning from history.

And yet if Boris Johnson had cancelled a meeting due to offence taken over a letter whilst asylum seekers were drowning in the Channel the FBPE crowd would be up in arms. This is where we're at now, whatever the argument, the ardent remainers will ALWAYS align themselves with the EU.

[BritS]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	And yet if Boris Johnson had cancelled a meeting due to offence taken over a letter whilst asylum seekers were drowning in the Channel the FBPE crowd would be up in arms. This is where we're at now, whatever the argument, the ardent remainers will ALWAYS align themselves with the EU.

Perhaps because the person Bozza appointed to oversee the channel crossing situation has suggested shooting the crafts, prosecuting people who save them from drowning, and even more bizarrely, creating a wave machine strong enough to turn the tide and push the boats back to France.

If I was the EU I would probably think twice about trying to work with such Cnuts, too.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	And yet if Boris Johnson had cancelled a meeting due to offence taken over a letter whilst asylum seekers were drowning in the Channel the FBPE crowd would be up in arms. This is where we're at now, whatever the argument, the ardent remainers will ALWAYS align themselves with the EU.

When you treat people the way the British government has, you can not expect their cooperation thereafter. This is the kind of thing most people learn in kindergarten.

There is no point in entertaining the British government because they are an unreliable bunch of fools who's only interest is playing to the home crowd. Don't expect people to take you seriously.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Legal channels are there! Actual refugees use these all the time, the UK is planning on bringing over 20,000 Afghan refugees this year alone. This is an issue between the UK and France, and will only be resolved between these two countries. Unfortunately, both prefer political posturing to actually addressing the issue. https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

It is not a better between the UK and France. As usual you are clueless about how these things work.

[bowlie]

And they need to think hard about if the British Government would actually implement any agreement they make. Their history in this regard has been atrocities.

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Legal channels are there! Actual refugees use these all the time, the UK is planning on bringing over 20,000 Afghan refugees this year alone. This is an issue between the UK and France, and will only be resolved between these two countries. Unfortunately, both prefer political posturing to actually addressing the issue. https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

From your link "You should apply for asylum when you arrive in the UK ".

So these refugees in France have to cross the Channel to the UK before they can apply.

What is your point?

[John William]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	I was there just a few weeks ago, in England and in Scotland. Brexit never even came up once as a topic of conversation, majority of people have moved on! Looking around there's no indication that anything has changed other than having to show a residence permit on return to Switzerland. Other than the FBPE crew clutching at straws as to what a disaster Brexit is, few people are talking about Brexit anymore other than to laugh at Emanuel Macron with his Napoleon complex getting irate over a few dozen fishing boats off the coast of Jersey. But even the EU laugh at him over that!!

Don't be ridiculous, Lol.

[Flakk]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Legal channels are there! Actual refugees use these all the time, the UK is planning on bringing over 20,000 Afghan refugees this year alone. This is an issue between the UK and France, and will only be resolved between these two countries. Unfortunately, both prefer political posturing to actually addressing the issue. https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

…and France took 436,000 refugees in 2020.

[John William]

	Quote:	flakk
	well the british position is more or less that they don't want to take any migrants whatsoever and want the french to stop them leaving france so the french have to deal with 100% of the problem. If i was the french president i would also refuse to help the british until they actually propose to help deal with the whole consequences - including taking their share of the migrants. After all, they're not legally in france either.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	No doubt this joined up thinking will solve the problem and the boats will stop on Monday. Looking forward to the results, all hail the EU!

What problem?
For France the boats are the solution for problems like the Calais Jungle (and whatever it may have been replaced by).

[TonyClifton]

	Quote:	Flakk
	…and France took 436,000 refugees in 2020.

Where did you come up with that number? As far as I can see France had 86k asylum applications of which nearly 80% were rejected (see page 28 of the report below). This could account for the numbers heading on to the UK.

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...03/SN01403.pdf

The UK should and could do more with easing the path for asylum seekers, the best way would be to speed up the process to distinguish genuine asylum seekers from those who are not.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	What problem? For France the boats are the solution for problems like the Calais Jungle (and whatever it may have been replaced by).

In an odd way I agree. Other than the humanitarian issue of people drowning merely KM off the coast of France, this isn't a French problem. However one does have to ask the question as to why these poor souls feel the need to flee the EU?! If they'd listen to JackieH they'd know they were heading to perdition!

[marton]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	Where did you come up with that number? As far as I can see France had 86k asylum applications of which nearly 80% were rejected (see page 28 of the report below). This could account for the numbers heading on to the UK. https://researchbriefings.files.parl...03/SN01403.pdf The UK should and could do more with easing the path for asylum seekers, the best way would be to speed up the process to distinguish genuine asylum seekers from those who are not. In an odd way I agree. Other than the humanitarian issue of people drowning merely KM off the coast of France, this isn't a French problem. However one does have to ask the question as to why these poor souls feel the need to flee the EU?! If they'd listen to JackieH they'd know they were heading to perdition!

Why do they flee the EU? According to the refugees they ask the answer is Brexit, they say "To avoid the EU law that they are sent back to the country where they entered the EU".

[JackieH]

The first of the people who lost their lives a couple of days ago has been named. She was desperately trying to join her Fiancé in the UK. That is the case for many, joining family.

If you have never watched it, do watch the French Film 'Welcome'- about a young Iraki trying to join his beloved girlfriend who arrived in the UK sometime before, and who is being forced to marry another guy. The most moving film... and everytime I think ' he could be my grandson ' ...

https://youtu.be/t40ANH4Pe14

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	TonyClifton
	In an odd way I agree. Other than the humanitarian issue of people drowning merely KM off the coast of France, this isn't a French problem. However one does have to ask the question as to why these poor souls feel the need to flee the EU?! If they'd listen to JackieH they'd know they were heading to perdition!

It's a cynical approach, no doubt. But after Brexit, BoJo's breaking the agreement, and AUKUS, perhaps the UK shouldn't expect much goodwill from Macron for a good while. On top of that, and like BoJo, Macron will use the situation for domestic political grandstanding, I believe elections are on the horizon.

Perhaps the first question should be why the illegal immigrants chose France in the first place? I'd guess that with a large group of legal residents who look (somewhat) like them already in place it's much easier to hide. Relatives may even provided a place to stay for a while. And then WRT heading on to the UK, of course the grass is always greener on the other side.

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	It's a cynical approach, no doubt. But after Brexit, BoJo's breaking the agreement, and AUKUS, perhaps the UK shouldn't expect much goodwill from Macron for a good while. On top of that, and like BoJo, Macron will use the situation for domestic political grandstanding, I believe elections are on the horizon. Perhaps the first question should be why the illegal immigrants chose France in the first place? I'd guess that with a large group of legal residents who look (somewhat) like them already in place it's much easier to hide. Relatives may even provided a place to stay for a while. And then WRT heading on to the UK, of course the grass is always greener on the other side.

France is the route to the UK. Despite being offered asylum in France they are reluctant as their understanding is that they would be sent back to their country of entry into the EU.

If the UK had remained an EU member state they would be able to return these refugees to Greece, or Italy, or ….

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	bowlie
	If the UK had remained an EU member state they would be able to return these refugees to Greece, or Italy, or ….

Even when we were in the UK, this almost never actually happened -- or not without tortuous legal shenanigans -- despite the EU guidelines.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	Even when we were in the UK, this almost never actually happened -- or not without tortuous legal shenanigans -- despite the EU guidelines.

Why is that?

For example CH and Austria both have no Schengen area border and are landlocked, so in theory most arrivals should have passed through at least one other country and placed the request there. In 2017 27% and 36% of their outgoing transfer requests were granted, so it's not that the Dublin system didn't work for those two. For the UK only 5% were granted in that year, clearly a much lower rate, but the question is why. Perhaps the UK was indeed their first destination?

The UK sent 2.1k of its requests (some 40% of its total) to Italy, less than 3% got granted. Switzerland sent 4231 and got 23% granted. AT didn't report outgoing transfers, but Germany got 9% of its 22k requests granted. So, it doesn't look like the reason for the UK's low percentage is on the Italian side.



ETA, Correction:
I misspoke. What I call "granted requests" above are actual outgoing transfers that took place in 2017. The corresponding request may have been submitted in 2017 or not.