The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[John William]

	Quote:	marton
	It is claimed Rishi will delay or even stop this.

I wouldn't count on it Marton, particularly when bearing in mind he's Tory leadership campaign video.

Yes Rishi Sunak embraces Rees-Mogg's favourite TV news channel, British Pathe News to remind Tory Brexit's that Rishi Sunak
will continue to get Brexit Done.

How does this work?

[JackieH]

How strange is that! I do wonder why?

in 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport

- by 2021, that figure went up to 227

- in 2022, there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport


Freedom of movement for a few ...

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	JackieH
	How strange is that! I do wonder why? in 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport - by 2021, that figure went up to 227 - in 2022, there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport Freedom of movement for a few ...

Lord Randolph Churchill once said that Ireland would dominate British Politics for a hundred years, looks like he was off by at least a hundred years....

But you are missing a big part of the story - Every Unionist is entitled to hold an Irish passport, they are entitled to apply for a European Health Insurance cared to the HSE paid for by the Irish government, their children are entitled to EU college fees, access to the Erasmus program etc again paid for by the Irish government.

Furthermore as members of the UK parliament, DUP MPs are legally entitled to sign Irish passport applications on behalf of their constituents. And they all have admitted to doing so. Even post offices in those areas regularly run out of Irish passport application forms.

On top of this the EU had guaranteed that NI will join the EU on the same terms as East Germany, in the event of a border poll.

So the bottom line is that the only guys pushing BREXIT that can't loose are the DUP. If it all goes terribly wrong they will just was their hands of it and walk away.

[John William]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Lord Randolph Churchill once said that Ireland would dominate British Politics for a hundred years, looks like he was off by at least a hundred years.... But you are missing a big part of the story - Every Unionist is entitled to hold an Irish passport, they are entitled to apply for a European Health Insurance cared to the HSE paid for by the Irish government, their children are entitled to EU college fees, access to the Erasmus program etc again paid for by the Irish government. Furthermore as members of the UK parliament, DUP MPs are legally entitled to sign Irish passport applications on behalf of their constituents. And they all have admitted to doing so. Even post offices in those areas regularly run out of Irish passport application forms. On top of this the EU had guaranteed that NI will join the EU on the same terms as East Germany, in the event of a border poll. So the bottom line is that the only guys pushing BREXIT that can't loose are the DUP. If it all goes terribly wrong they will just was their hands of it and walk away.

I wonder what will happen to those Unionist's in NI who identify themselves as being Ulster-Scots in the event of Scotland voting for independence from the UK in another referendum, namely the much vaunted IndyRef2 ( if it ever takes place ) on 19th October 2023 ?

Would the Ulster-Scots become entitled to Scottish passports ? as well as British and Irish passports ??

[JackieH]

Good question, an interesting one!

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	JackieH
	How strange is that! I do wonder why? in 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport - by 2021, that figure went up to 227 - in 2022, there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport Freedom of movement for a few ...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...brexit-337942/

[bowlie]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	On top of this the EU had guaranteed that NI will join the EU on the same terms as East Germany, in the event of a border poll.

This is something the EU cannot do. The Commission may have committed to pushing for it, but the decision is in the hands of the Parliament and the Council. Not saying that that is unlikely, but there are no guarantees.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	On top of this the EU had guaranteed that NI will join the EU on the same terms as East Germany, in the event of a border poll.

The GDR was folded into the FRG, followed by €60-80bln annual transfer payments (5-6-7% of the joined GDP in the mid-90ies) for about 15 years to lift the living conditions.

Does Ireland guarantee the same? How else could the EU make that kind of promise?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	porsch1909
	https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...brexit-337942/

While those numbers pulled out of nowhere are dubious indeed, I have also found this press release (in the source you quoted) that looks hilarious in my humble opinion.

	Quote:
	This information is not held by the House of Commons. Members of Parliament are not employees of the House and this information is not routinely collected for business purposes, so we hold no comprehensive list of this nature. The House of Commons Library holds some partial data relating to the countries of birth of MPs, which has been gleaned from public sources, but is has not been fully verified so we do not hold an accurate record. Additionally, this information has not been filtered or categorised as to whether the MP holds citizenship of one or more countries, in addition to being a British citizen.

So who on earth "holds" this information and why? I refuse to believe they have no idea who's citizens of other countries etc.
If it's for national security or privacy reasons then they should say so...otherwise everyone will speculate about the "numbers" and speculations are always far-fetched.

[JackieH]

Ah well. Apologies as the figures I posted were not fact checked. But if the Government does not even know- how are we supposed to???

As said previously. I would not criticise anyone who avails him/herself of another nationality and passport, if they wanted to remain in the EU, and then found that their rights had been stripped by the Leave vote. I would do exactly the same, and I am so glad my adult children, and grand-children, have now access to both Irish and Swiss nationality.

But utter disrespect for anyone who voted Leave, to strip others of the choice and FMOP, and then does the above. Despicable and hypocritical in the extreme.

[ShirleyNot]

	Quote:	JackieH
	But utter disrespect for anyone who voted Leave, to strip others of the choice and FMOP, and then does the above. Despicable and hypocritical in the extreme.

By that logic you are saying that anyone who has more than one nationality would be excluded from voting to Leave. What if they voted to leave for other reasons than FMOP? You vote for reasons that directly affect you, as you perceive them at the time, not for reasons that might piss people off 6 years later.

As disclosure, I voted to Remain.

[JackieH]

Well, I get you, and yet. When you vote, you are supposed to inform yourself about consequences. In Switzerland, you get a booklet with the advice and info given by each main party, fact checked, and also the recommendation by the Government. To help you make an informed choice. Even so, it can be very difficult, and I + OH always spend time doing independent research, on line, or asking friends who are experts in whatever field, or politicians, etc.

With Brexit, there was no info- no-one knew what they were voting for. Apart from ONE clear thing: it would mean the end of Free Movement. THAT was absolutely clear. So if anyone voted to end Free Movement, knowing that they themselves could find some loophole to avoid this.

Hence my comment. Nought to do with me, myself, OH and family all have access to Swiss or EU nationality- but I certainly would not vote to stop others to access travel, work and live in the EU, if they ever wish to.

I actually know several NI Unionists who have done just that, and it sickens me.

[ipoddle]

I heard firsthand yesterday about one of the idiotic consequences of Brexit. Our company manufactures' high end' medical diagnostic equipment. PreBrexit when a model past regulatory requirements it was for sale across the EU including the UK. Now each model has to be submitted to the UK authorities for a separate check, which is pretty much the same one that is applied in Europe. The only result is the machine becomes available in the UK later and at higher cost. Nobody benefits, patients suffer.

[JackieH]

Indeed, and of course low Sterling value makes it much more expensive on top to import.

Why is sewerage being poured by the millions of tons currently in UK rivers and seas? No longer controlled by EU standards, so private companies can put profit and Shareholders pockets (the same who are Cons benefactors), but also because there is a shortage of water treatment chemicals, the price has gone up and low Sterling value pushes that price increase even higher. One of the reasons public swimming pools will have to close this winter, not only due to cost of energy, but shortage and high cost of water treatment chemicals- as said, pushed up even higher for UK due to low exchange rate.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	ShirleyNot
	By that logic you are saying that anyone who has more than one nationality would be excluded from voting to Leave. What if they voted to leave for other reasons than FMOP? You vote for reasons that directly affect you, as you perceive them at the time, not for reasons that might piss people off 6 years later. As disclosure, I voted to Remain.

I think JackieH was pissed off by those who voted Leave and then applied for Irish (EU) citizenship, not just anyone and everyone with double or multiple citizenships, or with Irish citizenship acquired before Brexit.
Am I wrong, JH?

[ShirleyNot]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think JackieH was pissed off by those who voted Leave and then applied for Irish (EU) citizenship, not just anyone and everyone with double or triple citizenship, or with Irish citizenship acquired before Brexit. Am I wrong, JH?

Yes, I fully understood but my point was that you can't make huge assumptions about why people vote why they do. Even if you do have an EU nationality, living in the UK, you still have to live in the post-Brexit soup with everyone else, regardless of your nationality. Even if you are half Irish, it doesn't magically make your business more EU friendly or get you round the idiotic paperwork and red tape. The only advantage would be if you wanted to up sticks and move your business to the EU. At least you don't have the additional headache of getting a permit to live and work there.

Having dual EU nationality as a UK resident doesn't actually make any difference unless you want to move to the EU.

[Biro]

If you want a forward view of Brexit you need only to look what happened when the Romans left the UK to the Anglo Saxons....


All the nice roads, towns, houses built by slaves overseen by the Romans very quickly fell in to disrepair, and from what i see they have basically stayed their !!

[JackieH]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think JackieH was pissed off by those who voted Leave and then applied for Irish (EU) citizenship, not just anyone and everyone with double or multiple citizenships, or with Irish citizenship acquired before Brexit. Am I wrong, JH?

Indeed, that is very clear from my posts. Not my problem, I've had double citizenship since 1973, and my adult children, and grand-children, have access to both Irish/EU and Swiss citizenship. But the principle of voting to take away rights from the vast majority to go and work, live, love in the EU, knowing that you could by-pass consequences, is utterly hypocritical. As said, the Brexit concept was very vague, apart from on one thing, immigration and Free Movement.

When in the UK I use the Fosse Road all the time, and the Gartree Road too. And your point was???

[greenmount]

	Quote:	JackieH
	Indeed, that is very clear from my posts. Not my problem, I've had double citizenship since 1973, and my adult children, and grand-children, have access to both Irish/EU and Swiss citizenship. But the principle of voting to take away rights from the vast majority to go and work, live, love in the EU, knowing that you could by-pass consequences, is utterly hypocritical. As said, the Brexit concept was very vague, apart from on one thing, immigration and Free Movement.

Indeed, but generally speaking some/many of the "Leavers" voted for UK to get back their independence from EU. And they started this "work" back in the '90s, FMOP was heavily weaponised because it was more effective to use immigration as an argument against EU. You know the old recipe, just find some common enemies and voila, we'll all gather around some party/idea/ideology. But seriously, the pro-"Suveranists" were only opportunists using everything they could to reach a goal they had had for a very long time. In this regard UK is quite unique among (ex-)EU members and perhaps it's better they parted ways with EU..I don't know.

[marton]

Bank of England ups interest rate by 0.75%, £ fell vs CHF - I suppose a higher increase was expected?