The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[idefix]

	Quote:	amogles
	Whatever happened to the British sporting spirit and being magnanimous in victory and dignified in defeat and all that?

I guess it stayed on the bus

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	amogles
	Whatever happened to the British sporting spirit and being magnanimous in victory and dignified in defeat and all that?

Nothing at all has happened to the sporting spirit. The problem is that at the moment they have neither won, nor lost, so they've opened a keg of stupid and many are busily blaming each other for being wankers.

Sort of like metafootball.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Wanna bet? That's what so laughable about all of Corbyn's cheerleaders at the moment. They really think the average working family cares about diversity, gender equality and social justice. Labour are that out of touch. They've already lost swathes of voters to UKIP. But the best part is, middle class Labour supporters can't even see or accept that this is happening. Just because working class voters aren't outspoken on Facebook, social media and internet forums, don't think they don't have a voice.

Sure, I've just found around 76 rappen down the sofa... UKIP have one MP, that's it. Just because people are dis-chuffed with Labour and the Conservative - a not unusual state of affairs anyway - it doesn't mean they'll "go" Nigel.


When did Facebook become the go-to place for reliable political info? People talk, they let off steam... and then they have a quiet think and a (hopefully) vote and decide something else, independent of others. That's why we're here, isn't it?


How have these swathes of migrant voters been calculated? No-one can see or accept anything that's happening at the moment because nothing is happening. Not really. It's all announcements and conjecture and what ifs. Everyone is running to stand still. Nothing will happen 'til all the highly paid and feverishly working legal brains have done their stuff.


Out of interest, what do you think the "average working family" does care about if not diversity, gender equality and social justice?

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	Sure, I've just found around 76 rappen down the sofa... UKIP have one MP, that's it. Just because people are dis-chuffed with Labour and the Conservative - a not unusual state of affairs anyway - it doesn't mean they'll "go" Nigel. When did Facebook become the go-to place for reliable political info? People talk, they let off steam... and then they have a quiet think and a (hopefully) vote and decide something else, independent of others. That's why we're here, isn't it? How have these swathes of migrant voters been calculated? No-one can see or accept anything that's happening at the moment because nothing is happening. Not really. It's all announcements and conjecture and what ifs. Everyone is running to stand still. Nothing will happen 'til all the highly paid and feverishly working legal brains have done their stuff. Out of interest, what do you think the "average working family" does care about if not diversity, gender equality and social justice?

UKIP have only one MP, but as a percentage of the population they have more support than the libdems. in the referendum, this mattered of course. I think Loz's point is right though and its so sorely missed by politicians. Go to Sunderland for example, or many places in Wales where the mining villages have shut. there are no jobs, 1 pub and a newsagent in many villages, unemployment is high and most people are bored shitless and wondering why life is passing them by and there is nothing to do except hang around the bus stop. There priorities in life are 1) getting money to buy things 2) enjoying themselves and trying to improve their existence.

then there's a gap of about 4 million. then number 4,000,001 would be "the importance of social justice" and perhaps 4,000,002 would be "diversity and gender equality" in their mainly unemployed mining village.

if the government had focused on building a sports hall instead of a Diversity and Gender Equality Development and Openness centre in their village budget perhaps they'd not feel so bad. Still, the one person who does suffer inequality and the 0.01% of the LBGT community that havent buggered off to London because thats where its a bit more Happening, will have been pleased and voted to stay.

	Quote:
	Sure, I've just found around 76 rappen down the sofa... UKIP have one MP, that's it. Just because people are dis-chuffed with Labour and the Conservative - a not unusual state of affairs anyway - it doesn't mean they'll "go" Nigel. When did Facebook become the go-to place for reliable political info? People talk, they let off steam... and then they have a quiet think and a (hopefully) vote and decide something else, independent of others. That's why we're here, isn't it? How have these swathes of migrant voters been calculated? No-one can see or accept anything that's happening at the moment because nothing is happening. Not really. It's all announcements and conjecture and what ifs. Everyone is running to stand still. Nothing will happen 'til all the highly paid and feverishly working legal brains have done their stuff. Out of interest, what do you think the "average working family" does care about if not diversity, gender equality and social justice?

The average working family cares far more about immigration, jobs, cost of living, and football than what Labour thinks they should care about.

My prediction is that if this referendum gets blocked in any way, shape or form, then UKIP will see massive gains. For the simple reason that if the two main parties can't be trusted to follow the people's decision to take Britain out of Europe then responsibility will be handed to a party that will.

Remember, more people voted for Leave than votes received by Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Greens PUT TOGETHER, at last years General Election.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The average working family cares far more about immigration, jobs, cost of living, and football than what Labour thinks they should care about. My prediction is that if this referendum gets blocked in any way, shape or form, then UKIP will see massive gains. For the simple reason that if the two main parties can't be trusted to follow the people's decision to take Britain out of Europe then responsibility will be handed to a party that will. Remember, more people voted for Leave than votes received by Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Greens PUT TOGETHER, at last years General Election.

yup. it it were a general election, it would have been a landslide victory for Brexit...

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	yup. it it were a general election, it would have been a landslide victory for Brexit...

Particularly if it had been simplified by not having multiple parties to choose from, a simple yes/no would definitely have been a landslide.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The average working family cares far more about immigration, jobs, cost of living, and football than what Labour thinks they should care about. My prediction is that if this referendum gets blocked in any way, shape or form, then UKIP will see massive gains. For the simple reason that if the two main parties can't be trusted to follow the people's decision to take Britain out of Europe then responsibility will be handed to a party that will. Remember, more people voted for Leave than votes received by Labour, Lib Dem, SNP and Greens PUT TOGETHER, at last years General Election.

LOL, UKIP will be haunting the job centres looking for people to stand for Parliament.

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	LOL, UKIP will be haunting the job centres looking for people to stand for Parliament.

http://newsthump.com/2015/05/12/nige...m-stealing-it/

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The average working family cares far more about immigration, jobs, cost of living, and football than what Labour thinks they should care about.

Granted, but that's assuming no-one can see further than their own garden gate.

I would hope that when push came to shove, people can see further, once their children are fed, warm and safe of course.

[moggy]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	so who's going to do a poll for who will be the next PM?

Perhaps ask John Major's dentist.

Please, please not IDS

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	maybe you have a different class of facebook friends than I do, but I'm getting a lot of stuff that even as a Brexitter I find goes way too far and uses a language that I don't find acceptable. Sadly the leave camp are equally overshooting their target. What I'm not seeing from either side is anything constructive or reconciliatory. Whatever happened to the British sporting spirit and being magnanimous in victory and dignified in defeat and all that?

"maybe you have a different class of facebook friends than I do," Looks like it, I have not had any comments about Brexit!
I even tried posting a couple of controversial cartoons but only got some "likes".

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Granted, but that's assuming no-one can see further than their own garden gate. I would hope that when push came to shove, people can see further, once their children are fed, warm and safe of course.

The sad truth is that in many cases their own children are not adequately fed, warm or safe.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	maybe you have a different class of facebook friends than I do, but I'm getting a lot of stuff that even as a Brexitter I find goes way too far and uses a language that I don't find acceptable. Sadly the leave camp are equally overshooting their target. What I'm not seeing from either side is anything constructive or reconciliatory. Whatever happened to the British sporting spirit and being magnanimous in victory and dignified in defeat and all that?

You seem to be assuming everything (most) written in social media is written by humans. Think again, inflammatory posts seem to be particularly prone to being machine-made.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Granted, but that's assuming no-one can see further than their own garden gate. I would hope that when push came to shove, people can see further, once their children are fed, warm and safe of course.

"their own garden gate. " How posh!! Which tower block is that?
Good illustration of the gap between reality and what politicians think!

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	amogles
	The sad truth is that in many cases their own children are not adequately fed, warm or safe.

I have been visiting family the UK off and on since before the winter of discontent. Once I became an adult I slowly became aware that people of my own age often didn't ask what one did for a living, but rather if. Yes, most of my visits were to Liverpool and Manchester, but the very fact that it is a common question does not bode well for any nation.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	i think it will take a couple of months for emotions and anger to die down. 7 stages of grief and all that

Much more than a couple of months, probably years - it is like a slow motion train crash.

New PM in September then how long for the next steps?
Create a Brexit plan
Go through the legal steps for invocation.
Negotiate trade deals with EU and others

Every step will reopen wounds and by definition cause new controversies; there is no common and agreed view amongst leave campaigners so every decision will upset someone

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	Much more than a couple of months, probably years - it is like a slow motion train crash. New PM in September then how long for the next steps? Create a Brexit plan Go through the legal steps for invocation. Negotiate trade deals with EU and others Every step will reopen wounds and by definition cause new controversies; there is no common and agreed view amongst leave campaigners so every decision will upset someone

This is precisely why it's going to take some strong leadership, as in someone who can bring different points of view together and build a coalition on consensus rather than alienating potential allies.

The big question though is whether such a person can emerge and win the leadership contest.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	marton
	Much more than a couple of months, probably years - it is like a slow motion train crash. New PM in September then how long for the next steps? Create a Brexit plan Go through the legal steps for invocation. Negotiate trade deals with EU and others Every step will reopen wounds and by definition cause new controversies; there is no common and agreed view amongst leave campaigners so every decision will upset someone

The plan will happen in the background.

Life will go on as normal throughou the process.

Heseltine on Boris, too nice ba half:

Lord Heseltine told BBC Radio Five Live: "I have never seen anything like it. He's ripped the Tory party apart, he has created the greatest constitutional crisis in peacetime in my life.

"He's knocked billions off his value of the savings of the British people. He's like a general who marches his army to the sound of the guns and the moment he sees the battleground he abandons it.

"I have never seen anything like it and he must be answerable for the consequences. But the pain of it will be felt by all of us and, if it doesn't get resolved shortly, by a generation yet to come."