The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Chuff]

	Quote:	Odile
	Why should people have the choice- when they will not have to bear any of the consequences- and just sit them laughing with glee from afar was my point.

I am starting to think you are actually losing your marbles. Your posts are certainly getting incoherent/insensible to the point where they aren't worth reading or responding to going forward.

[idefix]

	Quote:	Odile
	Especially from the safety of the Swiss mountains, the sun shining and that view of the lake, with the Swiss salary having just arrived in the Swiss Bank account, of course. Especially for those who have, more or less, cut ties with the UK, never intend to go back- and still voted 'leave' with glee. Easy Peasy...it's not their children or grand-children, so what?

Because it's too funny to watch the minority losers cry afterwards.

For the 1000th time, people living abroad didn't vote leave. The real UK people who are fed up, piss poor and have nothing to lose voted leave. Deal with it.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	I'm afraid that's how democracy works.

It depends. One can also democratically include or exclude voters like the Swiss do. Some cantons refuse the right for their citizens to vote on cantonal referendums if they live abroad while others allow it. Does that mean some cantons are more democratic than others?

But I agree it's too late to discuss Brexit referendum background, now it's all about respecting the vote. Totally agree.

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	It depends. One can also democratically include or exclude voters like the Swiss do. Some cantons refuse the right for their citizens to vote on cantonal referendums if they live abroad while others allow it. Does that mean some cantons are more democratic than others?

Forget CH, this is about UK

[amogles]

	Quote:	Odile
	Why should people have the choice- when they will not have to bear any of the consequences- and just sit them laughing with glee from afar was my point.

Odile, not long ago we were having the precise reverse of this discussion. I think it was about expats voting in UK elections despite not living there or paying taxes there.

Yoiu were very much in arms that of course they should vote.

You even said that you would be voting.

And now you're saying people from outside shouldn't get involved.

Has your position changed?

[Connor MacLeod]

	Quote:	Castro
	the country might well be ready for a Corbyn government.

Corbyn and his side kick are terrorist sympathising scumbags.

The day someone like him is given control is the day Britain is finished.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	Forget CH, this is about UK

Democracy is not supposed to be that different from place to place. Or you agree with the Chinese government, that is also a valid opinion.

But I agree that it is too late to whine about how the Brexit referendum happened, it's now all about respecting the result. Totally agree.

[idefix]

	Quote:	amogles
	Yoiu were very much in arms that of course they should vote. Has your position changed?

Because of the bus

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	Connor MacLeod
	Corbyn and his side kick are terrorist sympathising scumbags. The day someone like him is given control is the day Britain is finished.

Had to laugh at that one.

[Castro]

	Quote:	idefix
	So anybody who doesn't agree with you shouldn't be given the right to vote?

There is a good argument for saying that if you no longer live in a country or pay taxes there, why should you be entitled to vote? Americans have to continue paying taxes back home for their rights to vote so we are lucky to have that privilege, but I don't see it as an automatic entitlement. And in any case, after 15 years we will lose those voting rights.

[Odile]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Democracy is not supposed to be that different from place to place. Or you agree with the Chinese government, that is also a valid opinion. But I agree that it is too late to whine about how the Brexit referendum happened, it's now all about respecting the result. Totally agree.

You cannot deny that democracy takes different forms in different places. A referendum is not binding in the UK- just like the First Past the Post system does not allow any kind of proportional representation, which would be deemed totally undemocratic in other countries. And so is having an unelected Chamber, where, for instance, just one religious group is given a voice, etc, etc.

At last, the voice of reasons from a most eminent expert in EU Law:

https://www.facebook.com/Universityo...4633102897424/


I'd say Castro, 15 years is too long to keep voting rights. Why should expats who will clearly not have to live with the consequences of their choices be given a voice- and then sit back and watch from afar? I would btw have had the right to vote in Switzerland all my life- but didn't because if you live abroad it's even harder to understand the issues and because of the above. There are 100000s os Swiss expats who have not visited her for decades, have forgotten how to speak their MT- with rose tinted glasses about Ye Olde Country- who vote every time. Some of them may have never visited even and just inherited their nationality- like some of my family in Argentina, the USA, Australia and Canada.

[Chuff]

	Quote:	Castro
	There is a good argument for saying that if you no longer live in a country or pay taxes there, why should you be entitled to vote? Americans have to continue paying taxes back home for their rights to vote so we are lucky to have that privilege, but I don't see it as an automatic entitlement. And in any case, after 15 years we will lose those voting rights.

In how many other countries is the US system of expats having to pay tax to remain a citizen and vote replicated?

[dodgyken]

	Quote:	Odile
	A referendum is not binding in the UK- just like the First Past the Post system does not allow any kind of proportional representation, which would be deemed totally undemocratic in other countries.

Here we go again. Move on - the vote is finished now time to deal with the result.

The UK doesn't do referendums but if they did they'd create the whingiest, whiniest, most bitchingly annoying losers in the world.
The way remainers go on you'd think that half the remain vote was thrown in the bin.

[Castro]

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Here we go again. Move on - the vote is finished now time to deal with the result. The UK doesn't do referendums but if they did they'd create the whingiest, whiniest, most bitchingly annoying losers in the world. The way remainers go on you'd think that half the remain vote was thrown in the bin.

I see it as more like a dare.. you're standing there holding a sh*t sandwich, honour bound to eat it, but do you really want to, do you really need to?

Thats the question

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Odile
	I'd say Castro, 15 years is too long to keep voting rights. Why should expats who will clearly not have to live with the consequences of their choices be given a voice- and then sit back and watch from afar? I would btw have had the right to vote in Switzerland all my life- but didn't because if you live abroad it's even harder to understand the issues and because of the above. There are 100000s os Swiss expats who have not visited her for decades, have forgotten how to speak their MT- with rose tinted glasses about Ye Olde Country- who vote every time. Some of them may have never visited even and just inherited their nationality- like some of my family in Argentina, the USA, Australia and Canada.

I think it depends or should depend on each country. I personally don't agree with having my voting rights taken away because I don't live where I'm from anymore so expect other people to think the same way. But one thing is certain, a vote for Brexit won't fix whatever goes wrong in the expats' lives here.

[dodgyken]

	Quote:	Castro
	I see it as more like a dare.. you're standing there holding a sh*t sandwich, honour bound to eat it, but do you really want to, do you really need to? Thats the question

Which side is holding the shit sandwich?

Brexit was never going to be cutting the tunnel, negotiating Ireland and then sailing out into the middle of the atlantic - dropping anchor and declaring the whole of the North Atlantic as crown territory. Although I'm sure Farage after 18 London Prides and 7 G&Ts had wet dreams of it happening.

The future isn't the future that we thought it was going to be - even if it ends up being really close to that future. The UK hasn't declared war, the markets haven't halved and no one is lining WMD at the UK with their fingers hovering over the button.

And yet, go onto Facebook and people are foretelling the imminent Apocalypse, as they try to work out whether B&Q has the materials to build a fallout shelter - and whether they can actually bothered to build one.

So everyone - please, please get a grip - and if you can't get a grip, please don't post on the internet.

[Phos]

	Quote:	greenmount
	But one thing is certain, a vote for Brexit won't fix whatever goes wrong in the expats' lives here.

Or a vote for anything, for that matter.

Seriously, if you are waiting for politicians and their politics to take care of you and your lives. You're already in very, very deep trouble. Your only real chance of living is really the choices you make for yourself. The topics are interesting, and its right to have an opinion about it. But pity the person who believes their fate rests on it.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Odile
	At last, the voice of reasons from a most eminent expert in EU Law: https://www.facebook.com/Universityo...4633102897424/

Odile, thank you so much for that link. The sad truth is that because his message does not fit on the side of a bus, he works as a professor, rather than as a politician. This is pretty much what I was trying to get at above with my post about how we are responsible for the lies we choose to believe.

[mirfield]

And in other news, Brexit hands Osborne a Get Out of Jail Free card.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36684452

[MidfieldGeneral]

	Quote:	Odile
	At last, the voice of reasons from a most eminent expert in EU Law: https://www.facebook.com/Universityo...4633102897424/

Thanks this is excellent, it is a pity that Cameron and the Bremainers didn't argue these forcefully before the election (I confess I was ignorant) and nail the Leave campaign. With regard to the Leave campaign's lies, it doesn't surprise me at all: "Tell Giant Lies".