The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	idefix
	That's why in 5 years time there will EU of West and East Germany + Romania and Bulgaria

Estonia, you forgot Estonia.

	Quote:	idefix
	It's the last signs of life for the EU as we know it...One more LEAVE referendum in Netherlands or France and Bye Bye EU. In 5 years we'll be laughing for these undemocratic measures the EU is forcing upon sovereign states!

Now you wouldn't want to do so yourself, would you? Forcing your view of the situation upon a sovereign state? The UK has very specific rules and laws- which may not apply elsewhere but are quite clear:

'The relevant legislation did not provide for the referendum result to have any formal trigger effect. The referendum is advisory rather than mandatory. The 2011 referendum on electoral reform did have an obligation on the government to legislate in the event of a “yes” vote (the vote was “no” so this did not matter). But no such provision was included in the EU referendum legislation.

What happens next in the event of a vote to leave is therefore a matter of politics not law. It will come down to what is politically expedient and practicable. The UK government could seek to ignore such a vote; to explain it away and characterise it in terms that it has no credibility or binding effect (low turnout may be such an excuse). Or they could say it is now a matter for parliament, and then endeavour to win the parliamentary vote. Or ministers could try to re-negotiate another deal and put that to another referendum. There is, after all, a tradition of EU member states repeating referendums on EU-related matters until voters eventually vote the “right” way.

What matters in law is when and whether the government invokes Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. This is the significant “red button”. Once the Article 50 process is commenced then Brexit does become a matter of law, and quite an urgent one. It would appear this process is (and is intended to be) irreversible and irrevocable once it starts. But invoking Article 50 is a legally distinct step from the referendum result — it is not an obligation.,

Now what you or I think about it is pretty irrelevant really. We can discuss if it would be wise or unwise not to invoke Article 50 now- and we may agree or disagree. But it is up to the UK Parliament to decide. Respect their Sovereingty please.

[marton]

Who knew Brexit would effect Swiss pensions?
Seems Swiss pension funds have invested in British properties where the prices are forecast to be going the wrong way plus currency losses!!

Source (German language)

[marton]

	Quote:	idefix
	Why the parliament? Already the people who elected that parliament made a decision for leave. Why should the parliament now decide on something that is already chosen by the people?

This petition is only available for English citizens to sign

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	Who knew Brexit would effect Swiss pensions? Seems Swiss pension funds have invested in British properties where the prices are forecast to be going the wrong way plus currency losses!! Source (German language)

I wonder if the reverse is true (genuinely) if pensions for people in the uk had European investments then in theory they all just went up.

[Troublawesome]

Private pension plans in the UK are invested in global equities heavily so I would suspect they held their own during the turbulence.

In the meantime- how people feel and why they voted in Doncaster- tragic. And yet- what has this got to do with the EU?

https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.warr...10285140744493

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	idefix
	Odile, UK people voted LEAVE. It's up to the UK leaders now to respect the decison of the people. And that's the end of it.

Which makes it at this date much more a British problem than a European problem... The Europeans are waiting...

As a German politician put it yesterday: Tea will be getting cold soon and that won't make it some ice-tea. Message: Waiting might be necessary for internal British reasons, but it will soon become counter-productive.

Intercultural thought of the day: The French will cool down with time, the German will get harsher. There is no stopping an angry Frenchman, there is no stopping a German who is right. The British government should make sure it doesn't not end up facing both when negotiating the future of the UK with EU.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	In the meantime- how people feel and why they voted in Doncaster- tragic. And yet- what has this got to do with the EU? https://www.facebook.com/cheryl.warr...10285140744493

Odile,

Only watched it once. What has this got to do with the EU? Absolutely nothin!, Hun?, say it again!

I get that they are angry, but many seem to have taken a kick at the wrong cat. Britain needs to address the regional disparities and divisions, has needed to address them for a long time, and I suspect won't be doing them in the near future.

As a Canadian, I have a passing understanding of regional disparities.

[Sbrinz]

A few facts need to be considered,

1. only about 5% of the UK population are from EU countries
2. the Bank of England stated that migrants reduced wages by about 4%
3. the UK unemployment figures are now extremely low
4. EU migrants pay more in taxes, than they take in benefits
5. in recent years the government has made hard savings on infrastructure in schools and hospitals, when they should be investing
6. provision for public transport & traffic, has not kept pace with the population increase
7. the UK Act of Parliament that put the UK into the EEC, can only be revoked by another Act of Parliament
8. at their last meeting, the 27 EU countries were adament that negotiations can only begin AFTER the UK has left the EU
9. if the UK decides to rejoin the EU, then most likely the Euro would be forced onto them
10. the proposed EU constitution was revoked by the French, and then the Dutch. The EU brought the new constitution into law, by calling it the treaty of Lisbon. Did the UK sign up for this?
11. the UK do not elect the House of Lords, who can veto any UK laws put before them. Is that "Democratic" ?

Looking at all the problems the UK has had with the EU, most are a result of the UK's own low investment, and not related to any recent EU laws.

[porsch1909]

EU tells Swiss no single market access if no free movement of citizens

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ement-citizens

[marton]

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Odile, Only watched it once. What has this got to do with the EU? Absolutely nothin!, Hun?, say it again! I get that they are angry, but many seem to have taken a kick at the wrong cat. Britain needs to address the regional disparities and divisions, has needed to address them for a long time, and I suspect won't be doing them in the near future. As a Canadian, I have a passing understanding of regional disparities.

Tres bien, d'accord?

http://www.mishcon.com/news/firm_new...3BuTM.facebook

The Referendum held on 23 June was an exercise to obtain the views of UK citizens, the majority of whom expressed a desire to leave the EU. But the decision to trigger Article 50 of the Treaty of European Union, the legal process for withdrawal from the EU, rests with the representatives of the people under the UK Constitution.

The Government however, has suggested that it has sufficient legal authority. Mishcon de Reya has been in correspondence with the Government lawyers since 27 June 2016 on behalf of its clients to seek assurances that the Government will uphold the UK constitution and protect the sovereignty of Parliament in invoking Article 50.

If the correct constitutional process of parliamentary scrutiny and approval is not followed then the notice to withdraw from the EU would be unlawful, negatively impacting the withdrawal negotiations and our future political and economic relationships with the EU and its 27 Member States, and open to legal challenge. This legal action seeks to ensure that the Article 50 notification process is lawful.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:
	If the correct constitutional process of parliamentary scrutiny and approval is not followed then the notice to withdraw from the EU would be unlawful, negatively impacting the withdrawal negotiations and our future political and economic relationships with the EU and its 27 Member States, and open to legal challenge. This legal action seeks to ensure that the Article 50 notification process is lawful.

Umn.... what does "correct constitutional process" mean in a land that doesn't have a constitution.

[marton]

Senior German politicians have suggested offering dual citizenship to young Britons in a bid to keep the UK in touch with the EU.

Source

[marton]

This party will never end !!
Angela Merkel could move to oust Europe’s federalist chief Jean-Claude Juncker 'within the next year', a Germany government minister has said, in a sign of deepening European divisions over how to respond to Britain’s Brexit vote.

Source

Juncker was always a strange choice for this role and Cameron tried to block it.

This business/allegations were never satisfactorily resolved; "European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has denied involvement in sweetheart deals that allowed hundreds of multinationals to slash their tax bills by locating to Luxembourg, despite being prime minister of the country for almost 20 years."

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	marton
	Senior German politicians have suggested offering dual citizenship to young Britons in a bid to keep the UK in touch with the EU. Source

Very funny... I'd love to hear exactly how they imagine doing that with the present German naturalization laws. "Offering" citizenship is an interesting concept. There is nothing to "bend" in those rules. This is just media noise to make Germany look attractive to young skilled labour so much needed in Germany. Fair game, but just a game.

[adrianlondon]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Very funny... I'd love to hear exactly how they imagine doing that with the present German naturalization laws. "Offering" citizenship is an interesting concept. There is nothing to "bend" in those rules. This is just media noise to make Germany look attractive to young skilled labour so much needed in Germany. Fair game, but just a game.

It's very easy; they'll treat the UK as an EU country and not demand anyone give up their British passport if they become German citizens. Same deal they currently offer the Swiss.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	It's very easy; they'll treat the UK as an EU country and not demand anyone give up their British passport if they become German citizens. Same deal they currently offer the Swiss.

This is the normal case for any EU citizen when they become German. You just have to cross the right box in your application. There is no "offer" here, it's the procedure since Germany HAD TO accept EU-intern double citizenship, extended to quite a few world countries also recognizing double citizenship incl. Switzerland.

Getting German citizenship is the issue here: What is the "offer"? How is that easier in the near future for Brits given the detailed laws in place? How does he make it possible to get German citizenship for Brits living in France or Italy in contradiction with present naturalization law? How will he make this exception legal all of a sudden? Brits will become German if they comply to all criteria, like any other Frenchman, Hungarian, Dutch, Italian etc. even Swiss.

	Quote:	JagWaugh
	Umn.... what does "correct constitutional process" mean in a land that doesn't have a constitution.

Oh but it does, it is just 'different':


The British Constitution is derived from a number of sources. Statutes are laws passed by Parliament and are generally the highest form of law. Conventions are unwritten practices which have developed over time and regulate the business of governing. Common law is law developed by the courts and judges through cases. The UK’s accession to the European Communities Act 1972 has meant that European law is increasingly impacting on the British Constitution. The UK is also subject to international law. Finally, because the British Constitution cannot be found in any single document, politicians and lawyers have relied on constitutional authorities to locate and understand the constitution.