The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	So it's all getting clearer by the day. Plans a-foot to get rid of minimum wage and maternity payments. But the big one is that the EU plans to crack down on tax evasion, and guess who won't be affected? Surprise (not): https://www.theguardian.com/business...-tax-loopholes

Minimum wages don't help anyone, of course Switzerland knows this & does not have one.

The UK will always comply with tax evasion rules. I do assume you realise Jersey is not in the EU & sells loads of financial services, as does CH.

[marton]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	If the EU is serious (and I don't know if it's the case), the Uk could be listed as tax evasion paradise in no time. This does have consequences for business and finance. But at the moment, it's all about rhetoric, called in French "effet d'annonce", because nobody knows what and how anything might be applicable in the future, even the reduction of corporate tax is such a rhetoric game as nothing can assure that it will be applied by the next government. It's just a response to the big companies that didn't want the Brexit and have been announcing delocalization or job cuts. In other words:

"the UK could be listed as tax evasion paradise in no time." Which would destroy any chance of a decent trade agreement with the EU; or with any other country that discourages new tax paradises, for example, the US.

	Quote:	marton
	"the UK could be listed as tax evasion paradise in no time." Which would destroy any chance of a decent trade agreement with the EU; or with any other country that discourages new tax paradises, for example, the US.

Luxembourg is a tax haven. That is in the EU.

[dodgyken]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Luxembourg is a tax haven. That is in the EU.

And the Dutch and Irish have "competitive" CT rates.
And Poland does a nice line in PLFs for German residents.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Luxembourg is a tax haven. That is in the EU.

And Junker, being from Luxembourg, would never shoot himself in the foot?

OK, I see what you mean.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	amogles
	And Junker, being from Luxembourg, would never shoot himself in the foot? OK, I see what you mean.

Luxembourg is not what it used to be anymore. See changes by 1st january 2015. Short version: Germany won.

The UK has always been hypocritical and Germany has been trying to change that for some years. As long as the UK manages to keep their double faced system, fine for them, but don't expect Germany to stop trying as they get the support of France and Italy.

The US cracked the Swiss nut, they could easily apply the same strategy against the UK if it is in their interest.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	If the EU is serious (and I don't know if it's the case), the Uk could be listed as tax evasion paradise in no time.

could it now?

	Quote:	marton
	Which would destroy any chance of a decent trade agreement with the EU; or with any other country that discourages new tax paradises, for example, the US.

yes, just take the bullshlt ball and run with it!

[marton]

	Quote:	marton
	"the UK could be listed as tax evasion paradise in no time." Which would destroy any chance of a decent trade agreement with the EU; or with any other country that discourages new tax paradises, for example, the US.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Luxembourg is a tax haven. That is in the EU.

Read again!
"discourages new tax paradises"

[marton]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	could it now? yes, just take the bullshlt ball and run with it!

"just take the bullshit ball" Must be depressing for you to watch your Brexit dream destroying shareholder and pension fund values world wide plus UK property values and the £ is collapsing.

The only bullshit ball was the false promises of the Leave Campaigners which are now sadly coming home to roost and crapping on everybody!

Must be time for a nice cup of tea

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	could it now? (UK listed as tax heaven)

Not today. But the UK hypocrisy has been infuriating Germany and France for a long time. The UK could keep it up until now and is convinced to keep it up in the future. They are entitled to this belief and they might be right. But it doesn't mean Germany, France and Italy won't try what they can to avoid having their tax revenues sucked away by the London city.

London won over Zürich because London was EU and the US helped. Luxembourg had to give in massively but got a compromise because it is EU. After Brexit, there is no need to content the Brits anymore. I don't know how big a difference it will make. We'll see. Fact is that the London City wanted to stay in the EU...

[Chuff]

	Quote:	marton
	"just take the bullshit ball" Must be depressing for you to watch your Brexit dream destroying shareholder and pension fund values world wide plus UK property values and the £ is collapsing. The only bullshit ball was the false promises of the Leave Campaigners which are now sadly coming home to roost and crapping on everybody! Must be time for a nice cup of tea

Must be time for you to learn how to use the quote function without unnecessarily re-quoting things at the start of each sentence.

PS: I would wager Phil's expertise in the area of tax is several orders of magnitude higher than yours (and probably Failtrad's).

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	Chuff
	(and probably Failtrad's).

You know me so well you can't even spell my name.
Love dear.

[yacek]

	Quote:	marton
	"just take the bullshit ball" Must be depressing for you to watch your Brexit dream destroying shareholder and pension fund values world wide plus UK property values and the £ is collapsing.

Repetitively the falling GBP has been used as an argument for "remain", while the whole developed world engages in a competitive devaluation of their own currencies. My take on it: people who are somehow "set" in the British society don't give much a thought about the the poor souls who must compete with the cheap-labour countries imports.
Regarding shares Nd property - again, same thing. The poor souls are invested in neither, and the recent valuations are more a symptom of too much liquidity than fundamentals.

I'm afraid nobody will be able to count on rationality from the EU at this point. There is an EU-Canada deal about to go through, but Germany and France suddenly insisted it pass parliamentary approval, and Juncker complied. I assume that trade deal will now require approval from 27 parliaments? THIS is what the UK will encounter after Article 50 and trying to gain access to its business customers. Their business customers will be castled within the EU.

Even if the EU totally breaks down at this point, they go on vacation for weeks and not report to work, refuse to work altogether, it will continue to amass power and money for absolutely nothing at all.

They have a hell of scam running. It even looks bigger than religion at this point. All they have to do is tie up paperwork, and it will continue on, because there are no metrics for their performance, and there is no accountability for the things they do.

I wonder if they are prosecutable in a particular court of law. Outside of that, the only real escape from this beast is enough critical mass of exits to collapse it completely so that free people can trade with each other freely.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	I'm afraid nobody will be able to count on rationality from the EU at this point. There is an EU-Canada deal about to go through, but Germany and France suddenly insisted it pass parliamentary approval, and Juncker complied. I assume that trade deal will now require approval from 27 parliaments? THIS is what the UK will encounter after Article 50 and trying to gain access to its business customers. Their business customers will be castled within the EU. Even if the EU totally breaks down at this point, they go on vacation for weeks and not report to work, refuse to work altogether, it will continue to amass power and money for absolutely nothing at all. They have a hell of scam running. It even looks bigger than religion at this point. All they have to do is tie up paperwork, and it will continue on, because there are no metrics for their performance, and there is no accountability for the things they do. I wonder if they are prosecutable in a particular court of law. Outside of that, the only real escape from this beast is enough critical mass of exits to collapse it completely so that free people can trade with each other freely.

"THIS is what the UK will encounter after Article 50 " Congratulations! You finally got the point

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	"THIS is what the UK will encounter after Article 50 " Congratulations! You finally got the point

Of course if there is a 10% tariff on cars, then EU cars will cost 20% more in the UK & UK cars will be priced at the same before the BREXIT vote. Same for almost anything else. What's not to like..... Protectionism at it's best! Of course the UK market won't accept a 20% price rise so the EU companies will have to suffer a 20% margin loss. What's not to like?

[Urs Max]

How many cars does the UK sell under domestic-owned brands?

[amogles]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	How many cars does the UK sell under domestic-owned brands?

Seeing anybody can buy stocks in virtually any car manufacturer, and top management is also getting more and more international, the question of which country owns a brand is becoming increasingly cloudy and ultimately irrelavant.

What matters more is, who gets the dividends, who gets the taxes and where are the jobs?

Manufracturing creates jobs and wealth in a more visible way than the dividend, and there are certainly plenty of cars being made in the UK, and plenty of sub component manufacturers and service providers to the car industry are also based in Britain..

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	Seeing anybody can buy stocks in virtually any car manufacturer, and top management is also getting more and more international, the question of which country owns a brand is becoming increasingly cloudy and ultimately irrelavant. What matters more is, who gets the dividends, who gets the taxes and where are the jobs? Manufracturing creates jobs and wealth in a more visible way than the dividend, and there are certainly plenty of cars being made in the UK, and plenty of sub component manufacturers and service providers to the car industry are also based in Britain..

I generally agree, but the increased profits will go to (and be taxed in) Germany and elsewhere, that's why ownership is important. The jobs are in the UK already so at best no change by Brexit, at worst a move of the jobs to EU territory with the next major company reorganisation. Delays at the border/customs may make Just In Time and Lean Manufacturing impossible, and if EU decides that UK components are to be tariff'ed they may well become uncompetitive despite the lower pound.

From an EU perspective, the UK is no longer "us" since the Brexit. There's no particular reason anymore to play nice.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	I generally agree, but the increased profits will go to (and be taxed in) Germany and elsewhere, that's why ownership is important. The jobs are in the UK already so at best no change by Brexit, at worst a move of the jobs to EU territory with the next major company reorganisation. Delays at the border/customs may make Just In Time and Lean Manufacturing impossible, and if EU decides that UK components are to be tariff'ed they may well become uncompetitive despite the lower pound. From an EU perspective, the UK is no longer "us" since the Brexit. There's no particular reason anymore to play nice.

With the release of country by country reporting requirements, we shall soon see where the tax revenues really are situated. Germany can sometimes be an attractive tax location with the right debt-financing in place, i.e., when you don't actually pay much tax in Germany...