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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3861  
Old 07.07.2016, 18:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is the "smoking teenager" effect.
I usually use hickory wood chips but I'm sure teenagers would impart a more meaty flavour.
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  #3862  
Old 07.07.2016, 18:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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A reminder to remain voters: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST.
The beauty of Brexit is that it will differentiate between those who define themselves by what happened to them, from those who define themselves by where they are headed.

From sentiments expressed, I'm convinced there are some trapped closet Conservatives amongst the Remainers.
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  #3863  
Old 07.07.2016, 18:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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From sentiments expressed, I'm convinced there are some trapped closet Conservatives amongst the Remainers.
Quite possibly, however I would have voted leave & my position would be to the right of Margret Thatcher, so I don't fit into your box as I would rather think for myself.

In many EU countries after 5 years residence a passport is possible & anyone who has already exercised free movement has nothing to worry about in any case.

My Grandmother a UK citizen went to live in France in 1949, she stayed for over 20 years, well before the treaty of Rome..... She had also lived in the USA & Hong Kong before that, moving abroad has never been an issue if you really wanted to go.
  #3864  
Old 07.07.2016, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quite possibly, however I would have voted leave & my position would be to the right of Margret Thatcher, so I don't fit into your box as I would rather think for myself.

In many EU countries after 5 years residence a passport is possible & anyone who has already exercised free movement has nothing to worry about in any case.

My Grandmother a UK citizen went to live in France in 1949, she stayed for over 20 years, well before the treaty of Rome..... She had also lived in the USA & Hong Kong before that, moving abroad has never been an issue if you really wanted to go.
My great aunt moved to Spain in the mid 1960s and bought a property for small change that when she moved out in the late 1980s turned out to be worth a fortune. She went in when Franco was still in control and when there were all sorts of wierd laws on all sorts of topics including limits on how much money you could exchange on take out of the country etc etc. If people could get stuff done back the, of course they can now.
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  #3865  
Old 07.07.2016, 19:04
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Quite possibly, however I would have voted leave & my position would be to the right of Margret Thatcher, so I don't fit into your box as I would rather think for myself.
I only meant conceptually conservative, in the sense of regulatory and social changes. I find the resistance to this change, from those who would otherwise be progressive, amusing. As for party affiliation, I assumed many Conservative members followed Cameron and voted to remain.
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  #3866  
Old 07.07.2016, 19:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It is the "smoking teenager" effect.
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I usually use hickory wood chips but I'm sure teenagers would impart a more meaty flavour.
More like pot luck
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  #3867  
Old 07.07.2016, 19:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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My great aunt moved to Spain in the mid 1960s and bought a property for small change that when she moved out in the late 1980s turned out to be worth a fortune. She went in when Franco was still in control and when there were all sorts of wierd laws on all sorts of topics including limits on how much money you could exchange on take out of the country etc etc. If people could get stuff done back the, of course they can now.
Exchange Controls did not end until 1979 in the UK, thank Margret Thatcher & Geoffrey Howe for that. You could move anywhere you liked but you could not take your money with you.....
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  #3868  
Old 07.07.2016, 20:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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"no materials at all (e.g. services)."
Often "export" services are provided in the customer country so costs are incurred in foreign currencies by the people providing the service.
I know you wanted Remain, but your desperate straw-clutching and illogical attempts at trying to refute anything that doesn't look pro-Remain is not really helpful.

I mean, just re-read what you wrote and what it was in response to ask ask yourself honestly whether it makes any sense at all.
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  #3869  
Old 07.07.2016, 20:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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At the time of the vote those who voted did so based on the information they had to hand and formulated there own decision. You can't add people changing their minds - that's no how it works. Are you seriously saying you don't know how democracy works?

A reminder to remain voters: YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST.
Information which was full of lies and untruth, about immigration and free movment of people, about giving the 35o mio to the NHS, and so much more- and the massive bias of the Press, mainly the Murdoch Press. And that is NOT democratic, sorry. And Democracy takes very many forms. In the UK a referendum is advisory only- you've been living in Switzerland for too long.

And the past- indeed that is the whole point. Who wants to go back to the past- Rule Britannia, wars in Europe, and divided and separate solutions for problems without borders, like terrorism, pollution, medical and other research, etc. The past of a divided UK- into several entities at loggerheads with each other. Yes, some of us want to go forwards indeed.
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  #3870  
Old 07.07.2016, 20:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I only meant conceptually conservative, in the sense of regulatory and social changes. I find the resistance to this change, from those who would otherwise be progressive, amusing. As for party affiliation, I assumed many Conservative members followed Cameron and voted to remain.
conceptually conservative
Conceptually is an adverb, not an adjective?
  #3871  
Old 07.07.2016, 20:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I know you wanted Remain, but your desperate straw-clutching and illogical attempts at trying to refute anything that doesn't look pro-Remain is not really helpful.

I mean, just re-read what you wrote and what it was in response to ask ask yourself honestly whether it makes any sense at all.
"illogical attempts" compare with "to ask ask yourself "; discuss
  #3872  
Old 07.07.2016, 21:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I know you wanted Remain, but your desperate straw-clutching and illogical attempts at trying to refute anything that doesn't look pro-Remain is not really helpful.

I mean, just re-read what you wrote and what it was in response to ask ask yourself honestly whether it makes any sense at all.
Well if you used more realistic and convincing arguments then it would be harder to refute them, for example, "An upside to Brexit is that Britain is likely to be freed from EU procurement rules, allowing the MoD to focus its spending on domestic companies."
  #3873  
Old 07.07.2016, 21:33
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I shall wear both red rep and groans with British pride Richpooch.
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  #3874  
Old 07.07.2016, 21:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Information which was full of lies and untruth, about immigration and free movment of people, about giving the 35o mio to the NHS, and so much more- and the massive bias of the Press, mainly the Murdoch Press. And that is NOT democratic, sorry. And Democracy takes very many forms. In the UK a referendum is advisory only- you've been living in Switzerland for too long.
Well, that is still how it works.
It was democracy, a terrible sort of democracy, but sh*t happens, and I was hoping that the UK would stay.

Woudnt`t ignoring the vote or finding a loophole, be even worse democracy?
The likes of Farage, and worse, will get turbocharged.

Looking ahead, the two real choices are to stay in the EEA, or go to WTO rules.

The better option would obviously be the EEA.
The sticking point in this is free movement, which was the swing factor that Leave finally resorted to, after their economic arguments were deservedly falling flat. They also equated it with Muslim immigration and managed to win.

At the same time, being in the EEA does not include financial passporting, which the City desperately wants to keep.

Assuming that Remain voters are OK with free movement, to that one can add the free-for-all capitalism wing of the Tories, who are (quietly) in favor of free movement. This bunch is the group that believes the being in the EU holds back the UK, and prevents trade deals with countries all over the world, where billions of people work, who are paid less than UK workers.
Also, who the feck needs those bloody health and safety rules from Brussels, aye?

With Remain + the above described Tories, I suppose that would make more than half the voting population in favor of free movement.

So I think, that once the new PM is in place, Art 50 will be triggered.
The UK will ask to stay in the EEA, with a deal being made for the City to keep passporting, in return for "accepting" free movement, with some caveats like delayed entry for new EU member country citizens into the UK labour market.
The Sun and the DM will praise this to high heaven as how the UK screwed the EU over. New trade deals will happen.
London will get a further boost since it will be the gateway to the EU for China, Latin America, India, etc.

But meanwhile, the parts of the country that voted Leave in protest, will continue as before, ignored and subject to even more cuts from the ascendant wing of the Tories, who have used Farage as an useful idiot.
The populist right will stay furious at free movement, and their support will keep growing, since nothing will improve for the parts of the country, that the Tories currently ignore.

In another generation, if inequality keeps increasing, then the REAL electoral shock will come, with a party like UKIP, but worse, winning a lot of seats in Westminister.

Last edited by Kosti; 07.07.2016 at 21:41. Reason: grammar
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Old 07.07.2016, 21:41
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well if you used more realistic and convincing arguments then it would be harder to refute them, for example, "An upside to Brexit is that Britain is likely to be freed from EU procurement rules, allowing the MoD to focus its spending on domestic companies."
With Brexit, the UK would be able to strategically support firms and industries that are critical to its competitiveness without being held back by EU regulations. They will also be able to apply innovative problem solving in many areas large and small without being hindered by an EU bureaucrat. The country actually gets to fix its own problems, and not get bogged down by the EU like that other failing states in the EU. This is the value of the "sovereignty" part.
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Old 07.07.2016, 21:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I don't believe the electorate voted for Brexit according to lies they believe. Who in their right mind would believe Farage about $350M for NHS when that is not even in Farage's remit? On contrary, what shocked everyone is that people actually voted according to what they believe despite ALL the lies being told them by both sides.

I was actually impressed and admired the electorate for their level of discernment. I saw it in the Q&A debates. People's minds were engaged and questioning what was being told to them.
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  #3877  
Old 07.07.2016, 22:35
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the UK a referendum is advisory only- you've been living in Switzerland for too long.
To be totally strict, a general election is also advisory only. The Queen gets to pick then prime minister and she can technically ignore the advisory vote of the people. But things might look pretty grim if she tried.

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And the past- indeed that is the whole point. Who wants to go back to the past- Rule Britannia, wars in Europe, and divided and separate solutions for problems without borders,
If you want to be totally philosophical on this one, the Rule Britannia is in fact a declaration of a world without borders. There are no fences or walls in the middle of the sea. There is maritime and admiralty law etc. Empire building should be a thing of the past. The EU is a modern day empire.
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Old 07.07.2016, 23:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Talking about the past- just been looking at some of the threads about the SVP/UDC campaigns and politics- and it is exactly the same few who are the supporters and apologists. No surprise there.

Kosti, excellent post. I agree.
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  #3879  
Old 08.07.2016, 00:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The UK will ask to stay in the EEA, with a deal being made for the City to keep passporting, in return for "accepting" free movement, with some caveats like delayed entry for new EU member country citizens into the UK labour market.
And that would require three referenda.... good luck with that.
  #3880  
Old 08.07.2016, 08:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Talking about the past- just been looking at some of the threads about the SVP/UDC campaigns and politics- and it is exactly the same few who are the supporters and apologists. No surprise there.
Wow, the more you post in this thread, the more your petty and judgemental character shines through towards people with different political views. You cannot handle a rational debate where your emotions run even slightly high.

Guess it's time to use that ignore feature again, your posts are consistently lacking in sensibility and content worth reading.

Last edited by Chuff; 08.07.2016 at 09:18.
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